I don’t like timed content either so I don’t do it 
I think between MoP CMs, WoD CMs, Legion M+, and BFA M+ I’ve done maybe 30 of them 
and that was mostly CMs for the cosmetic rewards.
I don’t like PVP. I don’t do it.
I can see both sides of the issue. I feel I am pretty casual and the highest I have done is a +7 (didn’t time it by about 30ish seconds).
Not the best example. Out of the what 1200+ unique pets. Only 5-10% see any usage because of the bs from boss battles. Which necessitates using OP teams that capitalize on interactions/synergy that blizz does not like or had foreseen. They wanted to fix pets for 8.3 but they pushed it back for 9.0.
And those are my 2 gripes with pet battles. You are encouraged to level stuff to rare 25 but barring select pets you cannot progress on bosses that are unreasonably hard. Even when following script/guides (taking more damage than usual, and yes I am paying attention to breeds).
In short the activity needs help.
opinion noted. I like them. Loved them more in MoP but still like the timer a lot. Neat how we can both have opinions.
Who doesn’t need gear? It’s the primary source of power growth at level cap, and makes you more efficacious at any combat-related task that interests you, even trivial content like Black Empire dailies.
Players who don’t raid/push high keys/5-mask/PvP.
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I didn’t receive any replies to this post I made in another thread that was critical of M+, in particular the rush mentality.
What i asked others: what objective amount of time (objective in that it can be measured, not felt) constitutes rushing/speed run? What objective time frame would be ideal? I deconstruct, very basically, a +15 and discuss how a general dungeon run would progress and how much time this would take.
Some assumptions/points: The mechanics do not present a challenge such that the group wipes or the tank gets one shot. This is not teeming. The numbers i present (sub 30K dps) are very low for a +15 and the fight encounters protracted to account for this.
I’m not posting to be contrarian (and sorry, truly, if this comes off as insincere), but the rational person I am really wants to look at things objectively, as much as possible.
Edit: in the linked post, replace “…and you’d have completed the timer.” with “…and you’d have completed the dungeon.” 45 minutes is over the timer in this example.
what your crowd dont understand is that you dont have to do it as a timed run . there are plenty of groups out there who just want to complete the key
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Rep for essences, Emissaries for 250 nyolota tokens, pathfinder (else you gonna use a ground mount) There are also countless reasons why ppl would do older content like your Vulpera that to get you had to actively do world quests to unlock it right so mass generalizing “who cares?” is silly.
If you are talking about Ap , that is recently, what about from launch?
Also don’t forget the travel time 2 to 3 mins to move from Silthus to Uldum over 5 months thats 13 hours just travellingmind you form one zone to the another and in BFA its made worse without pathfinder. Little little time adds up to too much time.
There is no way a casual with time constraints can do it all.
I think those get overshadowed by the ones pushing who throw a fit if they miss the timer or doing the old Gearscore stuff with RIO because they “want a smooth run” or just in general being unpleasant.
I suspect, like most online discussions, these sort of bad apples are the Boogeyman because you always hear about them, and a lot of replies from people just seem to reinforce the whole angry, arrogant players who think they are leet that want to push keys and everyone else is a “baddie” concept. It’s certainly not the norm but it seems to pop up enough it looks like the norm.
However I do think the poster above has a great point. If failing the timer didn’t drop your key but just didn’t give you a higher one it would likely fix the perceived problem.
So like now then. You get rewards whether you beat the timer or not. If you want to progress though, you have to show that you’re competent in the content by beating the timer.
Yes but you missed the whole argument about NOT beating the timer be a punishment which makes the attitude going in wrong from the start
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How is not beating the timer a punishment? You get both end of run, and weekly chest gear for failing the timer. Then, since you weren’t able or didn’t want to beat the timer the game puts you back one key level to see if that is a better fit. It isn’t a punishment.
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Healers healing through Grievous want a word with you
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People view dropping the key level as the punishment. It’s why I think failing the timer shouldn’t drop you but keep you at the same level. it’s a small thing but would go a long way towards making it not feel like a punishment IMHO.
I mean in most games if you fail to beat a level you need to restart that level you don’t get sent back to the previous level.
The “punishment” should be you don’t go up, not that you drop down.
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How is 40 mins not enough time though? Do keys you can manage so you don’t run out of time.
I don’t think the argument is there is not enough time. It’s just the fact that a lot of problems and attitudes stem from people not wanting to drop down. That alone is seen as losing progress so it becomes seen a lot worse.
Like imagine if you wiped on a raid boss and you have to kill the previous boss again. That feels a lot worse than just having to attempt that boss again right?
Remove dropping down a key for not completing, and the timer functions only as a bonus for completing it. Your “penalty” for failing is not seen as losing the progress you made, just not progressing further. It actually makes it closer to raiding (like I said above if you wipe on a boss you can retry that boss you don’t have to kill the previous boss first to get the chance again) and I think would go a long way towards curbing some of the extremely hostile attitudes that have become the Boogeyman for M+.
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Thanks, Capt. Obvious. They can still voice their thoughts on them, tho.
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So can Caelus, just because it’s obvious to you doesn’t mean it is to others.