Reviewing the discussion that has taken place so far. Closing for now.
9 Likes
Ok, so thereâs a lot to unpack here. Iâve removed a lot of the unnecessary comments that were made since they donât really contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way.
I will say that many of the comments I needed to remove were a direct result of how the post was created. This is a solid example of constructive feedback vs nonconstructive feedback. There are appropriate ways to initiate a conversation about a topic that youâre passionate about. This was not the greatest way to accomplish that. Does that excuse snark/trolling from other users? No, but there is a proverb: âyou can catch more flies with honey than with vinegarâ which means itâs more effective to be polite than it is to be hostile. Something to consider in future posting.
To be completely honest then, you should not post on a community forum. These forums are provided for the community to have conversations with each other. Posting here will result in members of the community contributing their thoughts. It is not against the rules for them to do so. Itâs actually encouraged.
Your post was moved because you said you demanded to speak with a Game Master. Game Masters are members of the Customer Support team. This appeared to be a topic best suited for the Customer Support forum. If you had said âI demand to speak to a game developerâ then the post would not have been moved because the developers are not members of the Customer Support team. No one was trying to pawn off your problem, but in fact we were trying to make sure your problem received proper attention despite your efforts to keep the problem vague.
Now lets get to the root of why you started this. Iâve updated your original post to make the topic a bit more clear.
The topic of harassment comes up often and weâve made it a subject for one of our rotating monthly spotlights. Vrak covers the subject in great details, so Iâm going to reference a lot of that here:
When faced with harassment in-game, there are a few tools at your immediate disposal to help you. This includes our ignore tool and the right-click reporting system.
No, youâre right. Ignoring is not intended to solve the problem of harassment. Itâs a tool provided to give you immediate actions you can take to protect yourself in-game. It also notifies players attempting to contact you directly that you do not desire the interaction. How does that help? I provides a very clear context around the interactions and is necessary for our Ongoing Harassment policies. (see this section of the post by Vrak)
This is inaccurate. Ongoing Harassment is absolutely a supported topic to open a ticket about. Itâs listed under âReport a Playerâ in the World of Warcraft section.
When you select Ongoing Harassment, you are prompted with a brief recommendation:
If youâre being harassed by a player after reporting and ignoring them, make sure you give us as much information as possible when submitting a ticket.
This is immediately followed by a âContact Usâ button. On the next page, you receive a brief description of what we consider Ongoing Harassment -
Ongoing Harassment
If you are continuously harassed by another player, use the Right-click > Ignore featureâor /ignore [charactername]âto prevent them from contacting you. The Right-click > Report feature is useful, but only places a temporary ignore on that player. Unless the offending player is contacting you again after you place them on a permanent ignore , we do not consider it Ongoing Harassment.
Note : PVP combat or corpse-camping is not considered harassment.
Then you can fill out a form with the details of what is going on. A Game Master will investigate the report by reviewing our in-game chat logs. This is why the use of the ignore tool is important. It allows the Game Master to see that you have attempted to restrict communications with an individual or group of individuals and that they have chosen to ignore and/or circumvent those restrictions. Doing so results in account penalties.
As Vrak mentions in the Spotlight:
Just because we issue a penalty (a warning, a silence, or a suspension) it doesnât mean the offending character is necessarily going to stop right away. So itâs very important that you continue to restrict conversations with them and report any instance in which they have bypassed the system to contact you. This helps build cases for stronger penalties - the penalty volcano you mentioned in one of your other posts.
Iâm not seeing any tickets opened by your account in the last 3 months. Perhaps you werenât aware of the options you had at your disposal to do so. I hope that now you are, and now youâre more willing to make use of them.
30 Likes
I saw that, It was hilarious.
He came in upset and belligerent, demanding to talk to a GM instead of asking for help. When you go to ask someone for help, guns blazing, youâre likely to receive that kind of response. Not to say being upset is wrong here, but when you need help, you donât bark at people trying to help.
How else should people have responded? The thread was moved here from elsewhere, where support couldnât be had. Some people did make unhelpful comments, but he didnât want help, he wanted to talk to someone he couldnât via the forums. And when people tried to help, they got a snarky response. Kalvieryâs response was spot-on, addressing the underlying issue of the post and outlining the proper steps to take when seeking help. The comments that were unnecessary were removed, as appropriate. Itâs not their fault, in spite of those comments, that this was brought on them.
13 Likes
Bear in mind that this post also didnât start in the CS forums, it started in one of the slightly less moderated (well, relative to the CS forum, at least) forums, which meant that the posts trolling/putting down the OP stayed up significantly longer than usual.
âŠThat said, OPâs attitude in the first few posts is⊠whoa.
10 Likes
anyone with a brain can tell heâs upset, and he has the right to be.
Blizzard has been really cryptic, hidden, uncontactable in any serious manner out side a third party randomly saying âyea, thanks, byeâ /close ticket.
Blizzard use to be the amazon of gaming, now its the comcast of gaming. Horrible Customer service, with an added cloak and dagger element to it.
People like him have the right to be upset, and have the right (in usa its a federal law that a player can talk to a supervisor/manager) talk to someone about it.
So if the gm in question talks to him about it, he being a person who works in customer service should be able to recognize that this customer is upset, and help, not tell him to get lost.
I said as much.
Thatâs not what happened here. What happened here is he demanded to speak to a GM, and thatâs not something that can be done or arranged via the forums. Kalviery did not â/close ticketâ him. He was told the proper way to use in-game tools to handle the problem.
Blizzardâs customer service is top-notch. While you are not guaranteed to receive what you want, Blizzard does go well out of its way to take care of its subscribers. I should know, I am one of them.
Of course. What he doesnât have the right to do is berate and belittle other people, in a player-to-player, SFA-moderated forum, who are trying to help him. And the SFAs who moderate this forum are not supervisors or managers.
All he can do is ticket in - and if he wonât do that, as he has said, then he clearly isnât looking for help.
Kalviery did. Hence the instructions to use in-game tools to deal with the issue.
Which didnât happen.
20 Likes
I have calmed down and spoken with a friend about this. I am replying to this out of courtesy since the issue is over and itâs too late to do anything. I explain further on the situation in a response to one of your responses. I am doing my best here to be polite but quite frankly the response comes off as patronizing.
tldr: I was vague because the issue needed to be seen otherwise would go into a big file cabinet and nothing would happen as the majority of it was not in the chat logs.
Was it wrong sure and I apologize for that, but as I will explain further down this was not something that could be solved via chat logs or your normal system. Quite frankly the situation was toxic and I donât use that word in my everyday vernacular as I think the word is over used. There was only one whisper in that entire situation from that other player. Once again, it needed to be seen.
Chastising me and lecturing me is the wrong way to go when you have a extremely upset customer. Customers start yelling at customer service when problems go unaddressed, personally I hate doing this because I donât think such people get paid enough.
I call it getting the stick, the stick is for companies who arenât getting the message. I donât like using it because it takes a lot out of me.
The situation needed someone to be there to see it, am I suppose to wait for twenty or more hours until someones see it? No, because by that time that happened the situation would be over. You people are the police of the game and I understand you canât be everywhere but somethings can not can be caught in this case, in chat logs. This is why I said your rules were being circumvented, once again I will explain further down.
Secondly as a CM I am quite sure you are aware that while people contribute itâs not always useful. Even the developers have said not all feedback is useful.
The last two times I was here I told that CMs do not normally solve problems here and this this forum is for players helping players.
So either:
- That CM misinformed me.
- The situation has changed in regards to this forum.
This is the reason for my perception of THIS specific forum. That is of course not to demish those who players who help other players here.
Donât treat me with kid gloves and insult my intelligence. What Vark is saying is not what I am taking issue with on this section it is you now and quite frankly this is turning into my most unpleasant experience with customer support.
Quite frankly Iâm getting irradiated at your poor customer service ability now because you donât even understand the statement. Iâm quite sure you are aware that there are other ways around the system.
I WILL ADMIT, I was in a blind fury of rage and if had I scrolled down, I could have used the ongoing harassment report feature.
Yes this started out as a pvp situation but that is not where the behavioral issue is. Normally in my experience most players move on. But before I will continue let me ask you something if someone wins something what is the socially accepted thing to do? Be humble.
Itâs bad enough to be ganked repeatedly but that flag toyâs only purpose is for mockery. Proceeding with tea bagging, dancing on me, launching fire works and other bs as if itâs some birthday party.
But I know you will say pvp happend. Unfortunately this level is trolling. Is there a reporting trolling button? No. Instead I get bullied off my toon.
This is why I was vauge because the behavior was nothing short of absurdity and the only way to get this noticed was for a gm to see it but by the time they would itâs over because a ticket would take too long! As a result the only option I had, was going to the forums to get someones attention.
From the time this thread was up till it was locked this stuff was going on, but could you have talked to me privately? No, because instead you made it into a public whipping example!
/facepalm
I disagree, it will stop it long enough for me to attempt to go back to normalcy instead of watching the circus that was my corpse. You know how when people see police they slow down their driving speed? Same thing.
If you agree with the second statement from Mastadon, explain to me how this doesnât fall under trolling.
Secondly the penalty volcano has a perception failure unlike other systems in say Riots League of Legends. Why? Because no one sees anything happen other than your monthly ban wave which Chinese gold farmers are currently making fun of on classic.
At this point this should be closed as unresolved. This is going in my bin of worst customer service experiences. With that statement I am done with this thread.
Because trolling isnât against the rules. In fact, trolling is a term coined by players, not Blizzard.
This is world of WARcraft after all.
When it happens, why not rally your guild/friends and dish out some payback?
Blizzard provides avenues at your disposal for those not wanting world PvP. Transferring or re-rolling on a PvE realm - and using warmode on/off.
Thatâs because they have countless compromised accounts at their disposal. When one gets banned, they move onto the next.
Blizzard doesnât actually follow the penalty volcano in this regard because itâs pointless and futile, hence the mass ban waves to ban them outright.
The war of gold farmers will never be won if there is a market for them - and as long as some players keep insisting on buying gold from them, the market will always be there.
11 Likes
I know this isnât going to be the response you want to hear, but killing someone that has warmode turned on is not breaking any rules at all. Thatâs the risk that comes with the reward you gain from having warmode turned on.
Using all sorts of toys and emotes after killing someone in PvP? Also not breaking any rules. Rude and obnoxious? Absolutely! But it doesnât break any rules.
As already covered by Nephe, trolling⊠griefing⊠etc. are all terms coined by players and are not against the rules in and of themselves. They pretty much boil down to meaning âsomeone doing something I donât like.â If that were against the rules, there would be exactly 1 player left in WoW and the rest would be banned.
12 Likes
Way back when I started playing WOW I used to play on PvP servers, and I used to corpse camp enemy players half the time on my other Rogue because they were doing the same to some buddies of mine when they were leveling their alts, and often I would just gank whoever got in my way because I was bored, and despite getting plenty of âIâll get you banned for camping meâ, on their other accounts, that never happened nor will it ever happen.
Blizzard will never micro manage literally everything that happens in this game, specially when it comes to PvP.
There are always PvP solutions when it comes to PvP problems on the wild.
6 Likes
Then why is there a report trolling button on the forums if itâs not agianst the rules?
And here is something you arenât going to want to hear, you all have stockholm syndrome. You acknowledge the issue is despicable, then shrug your shoulders justifying the bad behavior. This apathy is part of the problem.
No there isnât, no one cares about another persons pvp problems. Start a group asking for help? No one shows up. Make friends? No one wants to talk. Post in general for help? Get silence. Yes pvp solutions really work.
But thats okay, lets just harass other people repeatedly like teenagers playing halo back in the 00âs because we canât grow up because âeveryone does it bruh!â
Itâs all so tiresome.
No, I would say it is more along the lines of âwe are aware that PVP (especially world pvp) is not ever meant to be fairâ.
Is it the unpleasant encounters that are tiresome?
Is it PVP in general?
Or is it that you find the differing views of other players about certain PVP behavior tiresome?
Just curious, if you are not enjoying the PVP playstyle, why continue to subject yourself to something you find unpleasant?
7 Likes
Because Iâm not talking about the the forums, where trolling is against the forum code of conduct.
Iâm talking about being corpse camped / killed by the opposite faction in game, which is not against the rules. On a PvP realm, or even a PvE realm with Warmode enabled, itâs the essence of WARcraft.
It honestly sounds like youâd be better off moving to a PvE realm, where you have more control over if you wish to participate in world PvP or not.
A GM really isnât going to get involved because your character dies to world PvP on a PvP realm.
15 Likes
Nothing about the incident so vaguely described by the OP is a violation of any rules of the game. OP was defeated in open world PvP and the victor allegedly then engaged in some unsportsmanlike behavior which, while apparently hurting OPâs feelings, didnât actually break any rules.
This thread began life as a shining example of counter-productivity, and went downhill from there. OP didnât care for the response s/he got, and announced an intention to abandon the discussion, only to return hours later to continue a pointless, futile argument.
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No that is a denial of the issue and is a response of weakness saying âwe cant do anything.â
Iâm tired of people who canât think beyond the rules that should be updated and are unwilling to push blizzard to take responsibility. The mere idea that there should at some point be a red line is some how a bad thing to you people.
Iâve been pvping since classic in bgs the issue isnât the pvp itâs that some people in this world donât know when enough is enough.
Your own statement is a contradiction. You claim trolling is a made up term. I am pointing out there is a such a thing according to blizzard in itâs own forum.
The CM even uses the term. Regardless of if you think it is to blizzard this is a thing in game or not. If you ask a separate question to a gm as I have that indeed yes trolling is under the coc. The issue is blizzard, refuses to put a red line down when thing get excessive.
Reread the large post.
It should also be pointed out that trolling on the forums and trolling in the game are very different things.
6 Likes
Trolling in game or on the forums the point is that it is a thing that exists.