Hot take on cross faction

It’s been a thing since TBC Classic, even I knew about it and don’t play Classic. :skull:



;_; classic pvp is so bad…

but cross faction q…

:sob: :sob: :sob: :sob: :sob:

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sorry not cross faction same faction bgs, I was thinking of private servers lol.

For a moment, I thought they could just copy/paste cross faction to retail.


There’s no evidence of that, though. Just saying it will happen, but there’s tons of evidence to the contrary.

Look on Reddit. People claiming they were banned from Rated Solo Shuffle. I can’t validate anyone’s claims, but it’s there. You can also look on MMOChampion too.

And if they opened up cross faction queueing, I’d bet they’d be willing to enforce game throwing more strictly than they do now. Take a look at the social contract, before this people were just getting mutes for being toxic, now people out here catching suspensions and bans.

You’re crazy to think they wouldn’t suspend or ban players for throwing a game if cross faction makes it into retail.

Only thing there seems to be chat related stuff, nothing to do with leaving or throwing/afking out.

the ease at which a community can be started and grown would suggest that it is in fact practical.

a full 40v40 premade setup does have its appeals, but it creates levels of isolationism. my suggestion is a premade on both sides, but it doesn’t have to be a full premade, fill the remaining roster with other smaller groups and solos.

the main idea behind queueing as a raid isn’t to form a pseudo-rated league, its to prevent issues with people being left out because of smaller group size. being rejected from a group has an effect on people’s mental health, even if the leader is just trying to be egalitarian and give everyone an equal turn, and even if the rejected person is aware that they had their turn and must wait. this wound to the ego can then result in problems with the friendship.

what evidence do they have to support this claim? if you didn’t already have the right mindset and a plan of some sort, you had almost no hope of winning even in a pug v pug environment:

Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
-Art of War

winning wintergrasp D isn’t an enjoyable experience for anyone, we all still put up with it for 21 minutes. and if coordination was the sole key, then leading and calling out plays and strats should be banned because it gives your team an unfair advantage over the other uncoordinated team, no?

but you offer no evidence or reasoning as to why. i have disc posts and direct verbal feedback from many players to confirm that what we are doing is a positive thing for the pvp community. its very common to hear people say they were about to quit the game until they found SAS and it completely changed their view on what a pvp community could be.

one of the most common reasons people quit SAS is that they are upset we won’t kick someone they disagree with ideologically. we are inviting people from all walks of life and getting them together in discord to talk and have fun, that is the exact opposite of exclusionary behavior.

I’m not going to apologize for encouraging people to group up and socialize in an MMO.

I was thinking more along the lines of:

You can now queue for epic battlegrounds in a raid group, up to 40 members, however you’re split into your own queue, only fighting others also queueing in a raid group. To solve the issue of backfilling remaining roster, small groups/solos have the option, keyword the option, to be used as backfill. This would be a toggle/checkbox done before queueing. No one will be forced to serve as premade backfill if they don’t want to. The incentive for serving as backfill is potential faster queues. If the option is toggled, when queueing for a battleground, the player(s) will be placed in “two” queues (under one). Most of the time, the non-premade queue will pop first because more players are queueing for it, but sometimes, if a few premade raids are queueing around that time, the premade queue can pop first for the toggled player(s).

Does there really need to be any evidence for this? A premade has the advantage over a pug, stop being dense. A premade can choose which members are in their group (how many healers, tanks, DPS, etc.), can properly assign roles to members (such as who sits defense in AV or who will be the target callers) and so forth.

Whether or not your group does this, a premade can do this. They can discuss beforehand what their strategy will be because they know their team composition. A pug group can’t do this because they don’t know their team composition beforehand. What if the pug group gets screwed over by the matchmaking system and only has 4 healers on their team? What if they have no tanks? Who’s leading this battleground? What if I want to lead but I don’t have raid leader to put out raid warnings and Devoker Dragondeez-Ragnaros, who has raid leader, isnt reading the chat and passing it to me?

These are all advantages synced premades have over pugs. You have a higher chance of winning than a pug.

Read above. This is what I mean by the unfair advantage that synced premades have.

And we have probably atleast a thousand threads in the battleground forums about people complaining about synced premade communities and how unfair it is. I’m sure there are people out there who enjoy being a part of a community, I’m not denying that, but it should not come to the detriment of others. I’m willing to bet the people who say it’s a positive thing are only speaking in the context of having friends. It’s a good thing for sure, games in general are better spent with friends, but you can do it like the rest of us, in a 5 man party not syncing queues.

Again, I’m not talking about just your group, I mean premade communities in general.

Some don’t exhibit this type of behavior, and some do it without even realizing it. When players are part of a close-knit premade community, they tend to prioritize playing with their established group of friends. This can lead to a reluctance to include or cooperate with players outside of their premade group.

Premade communities also have certain expectations regarding skill level or experience to maintain their group performance standards. Some may prefer players who are already skilled and experienced, which can create exclusionary dynamics for less experienced or newer players. This one I know your group is guilty of considering you admitted yourself that you’re part of a premade community specifically to avoid “bad” players. Whether your definition of bad means inexperienced or just being a bad social apple, you’re already creating an exclusionary dynamic without even realizing it.

Your group is toxic. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.

they already had a premade v premade split and removed it even with sync communities in epics already existing.

queue times are short for everything but dps in solo shuffle, thats not really an incentive.

the attempt to create a system in which all players on both sides have a good time every time is a Sisyphean effort. every time you roll the rock up the hill, by solving a supposed problem of balance or fairness, the rock rolls downhill and a new target of your ire presents itself and you have to start rolling the rock up again. currently the target is premade sync players, after that it would be 5 man groups in 10 man, then they would want randoms to be solo-only. then solo-only with balance healers, and gear, and then they will want mmr, and then conquest for losing, and then elite mogs for participation, and then eventually, the removal of the defeat screen.

if you want you just blatantly claim we are bad for the community, you need to prove it, otherwise that is just your opinion. not a point or issue that needs to be addressed.

well i should hope so, we’d be really bad if we were no better than pugs.

i question the numbers on this, often these threads are started by the same players, this one was Bri trolling. on top of that new players often have similar complaints as they go through the same stages of growth as a pvper. so its pretty common to see the same old complaints every once in a while as a new player joins the game, even i am guilty of this. i view the journey of going from a solo player to part of a community and becoming a regular player within your community as the correct path of player progression. once you do that the rest of pvp unlocks for you, if you want to do arena, epics, wpvp, whatever, you have the people to ask and play with. real people too, not single serving friends you share an emote with before never seeing them again.

thats going to vary by community, i honestly don’t care how individual communities choose to run themselves, the intricacies of managing a large group of people tends to ensure only certain models can last long term.

yes, i know, excluding those bad social apples is entirely the point. they are being excluded on purpose and if/when they stop being bad social apples, they can join the group.

we are not and you know it, stop being a crab in a bucket.

Actually, dps queue times for SS have really improved since patch. I can sometimes get in faster than a random queue.



Here’s reasoning as to why:

Yo Molecule Man? :eyes:

Yeah it’s a bit faster now…almost like people are playing heals again.



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Don’t you do that to me? I’ll take my trophy and polish it up lmao .

Premade sync players have always been the target and for good reason. You’re bringing a full premade into an area of the game that is designed to have a mix of premade groups and solo/ungrouped players. Premade sync groups go out of their way to queue at the same time and drop whenever they don’t get the same queue just to increase their chances of being matched together in a battleground.

Any attempts at going after the “other targets” you’ve mentioned wouldn’t go very far. You’re allowed to queue in a 5 man party. It’s practical to queue with friends in a 5 man party. Everyone can do it and the game actually tries to balance that by matching those who queued as a group against others queued in a group. The game doesn’t do that against synced premades because it can’t differentiate the difference between people syncing a queue vs multiple random 5 man parties.

No one’s asking for a system where all players on both sides have a good time. It’s impossible, that’s not what people are asking for. You’re going to have people complain about gear, complain about how they have no healers or no tank, etc. That’s fine, it’s to be expected. You know that’s not what this is about, people just don’t want to fight a premade as a pug.

I gave you the evidence, you just want to conveniently ignore it. You asked what evidence do I have to support the claim that a pug group would have better chances at winning if it weren’t vs a premade group.

My answer was that the evidence is obvious, they’d have better chances at winning if they weren’t fighting a synced premade group because they wouldn’t be fighting a group that has all the advantages that a premade does. They wouldn’t be at such a huge disadvantage. These aren’t opinions, these are facts. Here are the advantages premade groups have over pugs:

There’s your evidence. Again, these are facts, not opinions.

Which is why I said premade vs pug is unfair. You even recognize it yourself that you guys have an advantage, what other evidence is there to show you?

And there are a lot that aren’t started by the same players. You can look up a few for yourself and even though the forums are a minority of the player base, even within that minority there are a lot of threads complaining about synced premades.

There was definitely a good amount in Shadowlands from Horde complaining about the RUIN premades, and those were from random Horde who probably just got out of a match with them. Not the same people.

Bad social apples by your definition. No one wants to join a group that kicks randoms from an epic battleground just because they can.

Sorry not sorry, your group is toxic. I know it, others know it, it is what it is. Of course, not everyone in it is toxic, it all boils down to certain individuals, that’s all really. But I still standby the stance that synced premades are unhealthy for the game.

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I’m curious what your definition of sas being toxic is. Because I feel most people in pvp are toxic with myself included on certain things. Both sides, premades to none premades, rated to non rated. Duels to wpvp. Forums to in game trash talk. But what do u feel stands out on sas for u?

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