Horde vs. Ally Start point in AV

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Jadei-grobbulus

Your speculation has no more credibility than ours.

Disparate AV queue times are a thing. HPH premade honor farm meta is a thing. The majority of players putting more emphasis on farming rank/rep over winning is a thing. These things influence whats happening with AV whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Could the map conceivably exacerbate these problems? Sure, in theory it could and thats my #1 issue here. Speculation about the map is no longer presented as theory or an educated guess but as the full and complete truth while it ignores every other reasonable, rational and plausible explanation.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Mkali-thrall

I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

Occam’s razor says the alliance lose because the horde are better at AV. Just an FYI. There’s a lot of evidence to back that up too btw.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Hey I’m an alliance and even I admit the map is fine. We’re just trash at AV due to our premades.

Non - premading we were winning about half the games. Premading a little more.

We forced horde into scorched earth. We couldn’t just let the zerg game be.

So we are reaping what was sown.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Mkali-thrall

Well, until you post the results of your scientific poll of Alliance players, I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

If we are using Occam’s Razor, in light of 15 years of alliance success in the BG, in both vanilla as well as PS history, not to mention the classic premade days, a sudden drop from overwhelming wins to overwhelming losses, then the “reason” is the most simple explanation: players.

Occam’s Razor does not mean “my favorite explanation”.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Corpseknife-mankrik

@Mkali-thrall

I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

Occam’s razor says the alliance lose because the horde are better at AV. Just an FYI. There’s a lot of evidence to back that up too btw.

Except for the fact that alliance do just fine in the other two BG’s so we know it’s not that horde are just better.

[Straws-bigglesworth]

Well maybe it’s about time to watch the video.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except for the fact that alliance do just fine in the other two BG’s so we know it’s not that horde are just better.

We’re talkin strictly AV here in case you forgot.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Corpseknife-mankrik

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except for the fact that alliance do just fine in the other two BG’s so we know it’s not that horde are just better.

We’re talk in strictly AV here in case you forgot.

But you’re not you’re talking horde vs alliance and claiming horde are somehow just better at AV, which we can clearly see is not the case or it would be reflected in the other BG’s.

Leaving AV as the issue not alliance.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Corpseknife-mankrik

@Mkali-thrall

I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

Occam’s razor says the alliance lose because the horde are better at AV. Just an FYI. There’s a lot of evidence to back that up too btw.

Except for the fact that alliance do just fine in the other two BG’s so we know it’s not that horde are just better.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Alliance with half a clue about pvp are actively avoiding AV

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Corpseknife-mankrik

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except for the fact that alliance do just fine in the other two BG’s so we know it’s not that horde are just better.

We’re talk in strictly AV here in case you forgot.

But you’re not you’re talking horde vs alliance and claiming horde are somehow just better at AV, which we can clearly see is not the case or it would be reflected in the other BG’s.

Leaving AV as the issue not alliance.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Alliance with half a clue about pvp are actively avoiding AV

[Pointytusks-ashkandi]

@Sephîroth-old-blanchy

then I have an issue with the mechanics of the map

Then you are playing the wrong game

The mechanics are the way they are because that is what players demanded with classic - no changes. Hence the mechanics are fine.

The issue have is with the Horde Strategy that Alliance players are choosing not to try to counter and you’re demanding tha Blizz address the lack of initiative on the Alliance side to favour your faction.

Blizz cannot fix defeatism and nor should it.

[Mkali-thrall]

@Corpseknife-mankrik

@Mkali-thrall

I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

Occam’s razor says the alliance lose because the horde are better at AV. Just an FYI. There’s a lot of evidence to back that up too btw.

Yes, but the fact that the other two BGs are not similarly lopsided means it is something specific to AV, rather than Alliance PvP, that is causing the discrepancy. And we have one such cause that is definitively supported by empirical data.

[Pointytusks-ashkandi]

@Mkali-thrall

Yes, but the fact that the other two BGs are not similarly lopsided means it is something specific to AV, rather than Alliance PvP, that is causing the discrepancy. And we have one such cause that is definitively supported by empirical data.

Which is not supported by data from classic which is the exact representation which we have from 15 years ago.

Alliance was doing just fine with Av in vanilla, but now loses. the maps are the same and yet Alliance continues to let themselves lose. That Data says its not the map that it the issue

[Mkali-thrall]

Because players from 2020 who are easily able to socialize and exploit map differences = keyboard turners from 2005? Pull the other one.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Pointytusks-ashkandi

@Mkali-thrall

Yes, but the fact that the other two BGs are not similarly lopsided means it is something specific to AV, rather than Alliance PvP, that is causing the discrepancy. And we have one such cause that is definitively supported by empirical data.

Which is not supported by data from classic which is the exact representation which we have from 15 years ago.

Alliance was doing just fine with Av in vanilla, but now loses. the maps are the same and yet Alliance continues to let themselves lose. That Data says its not the map that it the issue

Horde were not playing scorched earth in vanilla, that didn’t start happening until BC.

And guess what? When it did blizzard addressed the map.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Mkali-thrall

Because players from 2020 who are easily able to socialize and exploit map differences = keyboard turners from 2005? Pull the other one.

This version of AV has been played not just in vanilla, but on Private Servers since 2005 until Classic. Try again.

[Pointytusks-ashkandi]

@Mkali-thrall

Because players from 2020 who are easily able to socialize and exploit map differences = keyboard turners from 2005? Pull the other one.

Av is just not that complicated its not particle phyiscs that takes years to figure our, people were playing the same methods as they were 15 years ago. Alliance players are just not motivated enough to put the effort in for a win.

Again the ‘data’ you refer to is the same ‘data’ from 15 years ago and it does not support your conclusions

[Mkali-thrall]

@Misadventure-herod

@Mkali-thrall

Because players from 2020 who are easily able to socialize and exploit map differences = keyboard turners from 2005? Pull the other one.

This version of AV has been played not just in vanilla, but on Private Servers since 2005 until Classic. Try again.

You mean private servers like Nostalrius that used different versions of the map, unlike Classic? You try again.

[Pointytusks-ashkandi]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Horde were not playing scorched earth in vanilla, that didn’t start happening until BC.

And guess what? When it did blizzard addressed the map.

Yes they were when they saw the option they had. and the best way to win was to burn down the Alliance which was done at the time and now. The thing your complaining about now was done 15 years ago and the Alliance as able to deal with it but chooses not to today.

This is problem of motivation or ‘map’ or ‘meta’.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Pointytusks-ashkandi

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Horde were not playing scorched earth in vanilla, that didn’t start happening until BC.

And guess what? When it did blizzard addressed the map.

Yes they were when they saw the option they had. and the best way to win was to burn down the Alliance which was done at the time and now. The thing your complaining about now was done 15 years ago and the Alliance as able to deal with it but chooses not to today.

This is prob lem of motivation or ‘map’ or ‘meta’.

Alliance dealt with it exactly the same as they’re doing now. They stopped queuing for AV and horde queue times spiked, just like now.

Only blizzard actually addressed it back then.