“Oh this is a thread topic I could possibly partake in”
-Enters into thread to find it quickly devolve into certain nelf posters going “REEEEEEEE YOU GENOCIDAL HORDIES”-
“Well then”
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But night elves were there. They all had their eyes changed. They were not possessed by Elune. They know the lore is incorrect.
They are not possessed by Elune. They are empowered by her. This wouldn’t change what they believe.
It doesn’t though. You are ignoring cultural context. For night elves, having your racial leader have a crisis of faith is like making Calia the leader of the Forsaken. It compromises the entire culture and identity of the race.
The thing is, man, is maybe you require a bit of self reflection here. And I am not just trying to be a jerk here, despite our history of having violent moral disagreements. Giving you be benefit of the doubt, perhaps it’s that the things you say don’t accurately reflect the things you feel. Because what I have seen from you has been gross and awful, all such things I have frequently verbalized in the past. Even now, and perhaps unintentionally, you come off as disrespectful and dismissive of any and all frustrations that aren’t your own.
It is though. You don’t understand the cultural context and it’s implications.
He crisis of Faith came before that.
Tyrande challenges Elune to empower her.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Elune! Your people loved you! Yet you watched, distant and aloof, as they died in torment!
Tyrande Whisperwind says: I served you for millennia. But tonight, I do not come as a maiden, mother, or even priestess.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Now, I will serve you only if you grant me justice!
Sylvanas still walks.
how if she died, she saw the tree burned and then died
And Tyrande is still after her, and the Night Elves still believe in the power of Elune to get Sylvanas.
Tyrande is titled the night warrior currently. They believe in Tyrande.
Night Elf belief is the following:
- Elune is the primary goddess of the night elves. She is associated with the larger of the two moons, the White Lady. While she is a goddess of peace, she is not a pacifist. One of her aspects is the Night Warrior, who takes the valiant among the dead and sets them riding across the sky as stars.
This was also covered in War of the Ancients:
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I’ve read the pendant. The pendant has been overwritten with new lore. They know elune is not riding around killing horde. Tyrande is the night warrior.
As you are not a lore source, this statement isn’t true. This is also not a case of my saying “Post your proof” because I know there isn’t one to post.
They were present for the Darkening. Either they know Tyrande is not Elune, or they’re mentally addled.
I guess the latter is very likely to be true.
You don’t come off as disrespectful and dismissive of any frustrations of people who don’t share your interests, you actually are to the point that you have literally told me that if it doesn’t relate to Night Elves you kind of don’t care what happens to it and that at the time of that writing you wanted a win so much that any potential destruction or disagreement it might of caused was secondary. I reflect on myself, on my choices, and on my beliefs every day. But nothing you’ve told me indicates you do, and to be frank sometimes you just come off as kind of disgusting to me because the way you berate people while failing to even consider the complexities of morality is anathema to intellectual conversation.
And you keep telling me I don’t understand cultural context when I literally come from a culture whose primary religions often revolve around preservation and strength, they too experienced crises of faith in not just religion, but everything, when they basically had the combined stockpile of WW2s bombs dropped on them for daring to resist French colonization. That didn’t destroy their identity, it was a learning experience we grew from. Questioning your beliefs does not make you weak, it makes you nuanced, you do not have to be an unfeeling robot that never goes back on your ideas to be strong. In fact I would argue such blind zealotry can be a sign of weakness, of an inability to confront reality or confront yourself, because faith is a series of trials, and sometimes you stumble, that’s just part of life.
It comes off as very ivory tower most of the time, and it’s frustrating to try and work with.
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Here’s a thought I had on why Tyrande might be having a crisis of faith in spite of having Elune’s power.
It wasn’t given to her freely.
Tyrande had to conduct an ancient blood ritual with a very high mortality rate in order to obtain the powers she has now. She didn’t pray to Elune and Elune answered. She had to risk her life to take that power for herself.
We learn from the Lun’alai in Zandalar that this is counter to Elune’s modus operandi. The thing that makes Elune not a loa in the eyes of the Zandalari seems to be that she gives her powers willingly and freely where as loa need to be bargained with.
So to Tyrande, who is used to Elune freely doing things for her, this would absolutely still feel like Elune is withholding her help even now. Tyrande had to do some trollish rituals and offer blood sacrifice to get Elune to pay attention to her and her people.
So she wants to know why she needs to strong arm her goddess into helping all of a sudden.
That is my theory anyway.
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Indeed, and the won Darkshore back with Elune’s power. Nothing says they have changed their belief on the Night Warrior being an aspect of Elune, and per Terran Gregory it is Elune empowering them, not Tyrande.
And it’s a very fair concern to have. Tyrande is well within her rights to be infuriated with her True Deity after Elune did nothing to stop the tree from burning and then had to be bargained with – as you said – to retake land that is akin to holy to night elves. That act in and of itself proves that Elune could have acted and chose not to.
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Or that Elune was worried Tyrande would not survive the empowerment.
::Elune does nothing as her people burn to death.::
Yes, Elune is concerned about Night Elves dying.
From Elegy:
- The fire was too much, too fast, and it was no ordinary flame. It reeked of magic bent to a task so cruel, so utterly devoid of even a scrap of compassion, Tyrande could scarcely wrap her mind around it. Have I tempted fate with my arrogance, Elune? Is Sylvanas Windrunner beyond even your light, that she would burn Darnassus?
Kaldorei desperately shoved and clawed their way past one another at the portals. Tyrande, Anduin, the Stormwind guards, and the Sentinels pulled coughing evacuees to safety, shoved them in the direction of the ramp, and then reached through the portals for more. The smoke thickened, black and choking, and it became harder to see those on the other side.
Heat buffeted Tyrande’s face, evaporating tears she hadn’t realized had fallen. Against all her instincts, she pulled back, letting someone take her place, and forced calm on herself. In this moment, when seconds counted, she could assist in a better way.
Elune . . . please let me help them . . .
And all around her, there was an intake of welcome breath as damaged lungs were healed.
The fire was relentless. The smoke would kill them, and the flames would devour their flesh and even their bones. Only ash would remain. But they would feel nothing.
No pain in the Lady’s light, in the Lady’s love. Mother and child both slept, breathing gently despite the smoke. Her duty faithfully discharged, Astarii allowed her own eyelids to flutter closed.
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Okay. Now prove it was Elune.