Horde Players: Do you want Ashenvale with the Armistice?

I would like some perspective on something our dear friend Ëlësåna likes to bring up:

Horde players, would the idea of the Horde getting to keep Ashenvale with the Horde and Alliance signing the armistice after the Fourth War be something that would make you happy?

I and others have posted on the plausibility that the Night Elves have already taken Ashenvale back before the Horde and Alliance even went to sign the armistice.

Other people have posted that they do not believe the current leadership of the Horde would want to hold Ashenvale, and that they would give it back to the Night Elves with the armistice.

I would like to avoid the above two points in this thread, as more what I am interested in here is not speculation, as fun as speculation is, but rather I am interested in the opinions of the Horde posters.

Horde players, for all the negative points that happened to the Horde in BfA, would you consider winning Ashenvale a positive one?

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I am a Hoder.

I don’t want Ashenvale.

(Phooey, you fixed the best spelling error.)

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I have no idea how I typed that so wrong. I don’t think I would have caught it without your post.

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I think ashenvale being neutral would be better, especially if alliance are being given highlands

As a hordie, its nice to have SOME zones to quest in that are not desolate wastelands.

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To note, as with Darkshore and phasing, whoever, if anyone, gets Ashenvale would not affect leveling questing.

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I dont think hordies have any real skin in the ashenvale game. Our only interest in that zone is “strategic interests.” It does not hold an sentimental value to me, all the way back to vanilla.

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No I don’t want Ashenvale. I don’t see a point in senselessly taking Night Elf land.

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There are, I suppose, 3 ways of looking at the conquest of Ashenvale as it relates to the Horde story, a straight out victory, an advantage in the next faction war, and as a point of territorial prerogative. I’m not convinced by either of these.

As a victory in the war of BfA Ashenvale is tainted and hollow. I’ll never see Ashenvale as anything but the time the Horde slaughtered a bunch of people, just to set up Sylvanas to slaughter a bunch more people in the following two zones. It was dishonorable AND it had the players being played for suckers. Sometimes I like to roleplay as the honor horde, and I hate it. Sometimes I like to roleplay as the pragmatic devious horde, and I now still hate it.

As an advantage in the next faction war, it might have been good to keep a few years ago to bridge what I perceived as an advantage the Alliance has in territory. But we picked up the High Mountain Tauren, which have control over an entire zone, at the same time the Alliance picked up Lightforged, a handful of extra militant, extra holy draenei. We picked up the Nightborne, which is both a vast arcane resource and another entire zone, the Alliance picked up Void Elves, a handful of extra militant, extra dark elves. And sure, we picked up the Mag’har, a handful of extra militant, extra brown orcs, while the Alliance picked up the Dark Iron Dwarves, an entire mountain, but I had already been counting the Dark Irons since Cataclysm, so again advantage to the Horde. I feel no pressing need to fill a territorial gap.

As a matter of territorial prerogative. Ashenvale is adjacent to Orgrimmar, it’s not two zones away, it is straight North West of the Horde capital. Sure, it’s a bit odd that we don’t have an official presence there in lore. But on the other hand the Horde is being attacked by the Alliance in every starting zone, so long as you count Kezan and the Lost Isle as a singular starting experience. It doesn’t make us seem vulnerable, it makes us seem like we’re beating the Alliance right out the gate.

Then there’s the issue of themes. I don’t want the Horde to rely on the same beautiful sylvan glades as the Alliance, for that matter I don’t want the Horde to subsist on the same fertile fields as the Alliance. The Horde belongs in dank, disgusting plaguelands, harsh unforgiving deserts, and the ruins of once great civilizations brought low by hubris and carelessness. If I wanted to go someplace nice, I’d have stuck with my human paladin back when I started playing in Burning Crusade.

The Alliance can have Ashenvale back, I certainly won’t feel cheated when we’re back to the status quo.

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Keep it as a conflict zone. That’s what it was designed as.

Orcs fighting Night Elves is pretty iconic imagery and that’s what it’s practically there for. Worg riding Raiders clashing with Sentinels atop Nightsabers is cool. Plus then Warsong Gulch is always justified.

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Amen brother. The savannas of the barrens and the plains of mulgore are beautiful in their own right too.

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Not particularly. I would have liked for the Horde to win something during BFA but Ashenvale would be pretty low on the list.

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I can imagine the Horde keeping a portion of Ashenvale as part of their territory. They return Silverwind refuge to the nelfs, but everything east of the river next to Splintertree post is theirs.

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I would even expand Night Elf territory to encompass, Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Moonglade, Winterspring, and Hyjal. Contested territories would be Stonetalon(not in their favor) and Feralas(in the favor).

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I mean baring Blizz putting unprecedented resources into updating Cata content that’s what the zone is going to look like anyway.

I really do find it amusing that the continent’s been twisting in the wind for so long it briefly made sense again during BFA only to now probably go back to being some unstuck in time weirdness.

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I want Ashenvale to go back to the way it was in Vanilla: mostly Alliance, with some Horde presence in the east.

I want this for gameplay reasons. They can do what they like with the lore to make it work.

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I would prefer the Tauren and Night Elves share Stonetalon and Feralas peacefully. Even during Garrosh’ war, the Night Elves came to help the Tauren get Freewind Post back in Thousand Needles. Stonetalon and Feralas don’t have to be contested, in that they could just be cooperative.

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To note, besides leveling already being preserved by phasing, there’s not really any foreseeable gameplay to be had in Ashenvale as we move on to Shadowlands.

Did you mean for leveling, or did you have a different gameplay structure in mind?

Can anything that happens to the horde really be considered ‘positive’ in bfa?

Sure, i guess you could consider wining Ashenvale ‘positive’ for the horde. But tbh that small small small dot of positive is far overshadowed by the damage done from other narrative points.

Honestly, if the horde did ‘win ashenvale’ its really really low on the excitement list for me again compared to losses from a character standpoint for the horde.

Territories are cool, but characters are what makes a story interesting.

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then how would this work exactly? because it sounds like cata era ashenvale would be here to stay.

Like, high mountain and suramar are “technically” horde, but will forever remian neutral in game because they are tied to the legion storyline and i dont see any compelling reason to update those zones.

what is the in game pay off for giving ashenvale?

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Sure, but it would be still contested in ownership. I imagine the Tauren are the easiest Horde race that Night Elves could coexist with.