Sure
Or you could search for every single time someone mention going to another lvl bracket if they want to have fun in bgs.
“Most of them” does need an edit I wasn’t thinking. That’s why I said you could probably only fill half a raid.
With two heavily motivated teams, I think you could get the win rate of the starting sides to somewhere around 60-40. South side should still be an advantage if south is doing it right.
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I would, but I use to do wargames on the regular for years in AV. We did premade vs premade with countdown queuing AND literal wargames. But I’m kind of crazy. I would try to beat up Horde for no good reason or reward.
That is an epic level of disingenuous garbage you just spewed. The alliance boycott and subsequent cave move happened because the honor system changes, including the introduction of reinforcements.
I am amazed you typed that crap. Did you hope nobody would call you out on it?
Not sure how that helps your perpetual case that it is the cave/map/racials/scorched earth mantra.
Doubtful, there’s currently a much larger advantage in defending against those going south around mid. Although some of the currently 95%+ win rate is apathy I doubt that the contribution is 35% as you’re saying. It will probably split the difference and end up more like 70-30.
But this is all speculation and the game really can’t get even that far because it’s wedged. No alliance are going to bother much with AV at the current win rates, good people included. Horde queues will continue to be large so they will have more motivation to turtle hard. This will continue to degrade unless there is something big to shake things up.
Well no it happened because horde were playing exactly the same way they are now. Scorched earth strat which because of the map imbalance gives horde a near 100% win rate. Alliance stopped queuing because there’s no reason to bother with that, just like they’re doing now once they get their rep rewards.
And guess what just like back then horde queue times are spiking, I wonder how long it’ll take horde to figure it out this time around…
So “lots” and “most” boil down to a single OP for each of your claims?
It only gave an extreme win rate when captains and objectives began to count as reinforcement points. Why do you persist in the blatant rewriting of known history?
Alliance stopped queueing because at THAT point getting to objectives like Balinda first, actually mattered.
They are doing it now because instant queues, participation trophy MoH, and a general lack of desire to PVP in a BG. Not to mention sour grapes due to P2, most decent alliance PVPers moving to the other BGs, and poopooing because their premades were smashed by blizzard because of the 10v40 BGs they resulted in.
And guess what, your mishmash of history continues.
I wonder how long you will continue to pretend that what happened in TBC when reinforcements were introduced is the reason for what is happening now.
You asked for examples of different people and I provided that. I also addressed an edit.
My intentions were to respond to this that although it seems unlikely (I wouldn’t bother myself) there are people out there that just enjoy a good game every once in a while. I haven’t read over what all it entales, but if you can play rival guilds on your server, that’s a game right there. Something new to classic that wasn’t in vanilla? Some will give it a go just because it’s new.
That’s not at all what I am saying, go back and re-read because you’re pulling out a tiny bit of my posts.
It all matters. Map layout, racials, strategies, faction balance, queues, external factors, and so on. They all contribute some amount and at different points each side has reigned supreme in a BG, sometimes it has even been a split.
The contribution from these things changes and some are, of course, more important than others. However, it’s tough to tease out what’s the biggest contribution. All we can do is try to change certain aspects and see if the situation improves.
There’s some randomness at work here too. It’s similar to a plinko board where the puck can start out at the same spot every time and end up in a different place. It will tend to fall in certain spots but it won’t always be the same one.
The problem is that it’s easy for a situation to get “wedged” and thus not much can be done about it without a big shake-up. Generally, this is what’s happened in the past. The BG was changed in some major way, people came back to it and tried new strategies, it eventually settled into a new pattern. Sometimes this meant alliance was on top, sometimes horde, sometimes it stayed decently split.
This time around we’re wedged into a 95%+ horde win ratio, long queues, low alliance rewards, and long battles. This is not going to change without some major upheaval because even with alliance trying hard it’s very easy to get discouraged after a game or two and say that the effort isn’t worth it. Unless you can get in a game with a bunch of people trying very hard then your individual effort won’t be rewarded. Random people trying hard will very quickly get burnt out.
What should the shakeup be? I can’t say, there are tons of options. It might be the horde coming together and deciding to quit the turtle and go to a rush. It might be alliance deciding to field some super skilled and geared people en masse to break the turtle. These aren’t likely, though. The factions are pretty much a mob and you can’t expect them to come to a rational and organized decision like those.
The game itself could change, like new items being released which would make a difference in the BG or new talents, new skills, new expansions. The BG could be modified and people might come back and try new strats, There could be changes to racial abilities, there could even be a system of buffs and nerfs to the losing/winning side.
I’m not advocating one thing or the other, just that this is not going to spontaneously change on its own. Something needs to be done because AV is pretty much a dead BG at this point. If it’s going to be saved then it will have to be because there was a major shake-up.
Who said anything about it being balanced?
It’s not unwinnable. I’ve largely been doing a lot of AV queues throughout the last 1.5 months or so and the Alliance have rollercoastered from trying to rolling over. When they try they make us work for it and actually do push south. When they roll over they, well, roll over. If every match had them trying they’d win more matches than they currently do.
The only real problem is that Horde have it in their mind that because AV queue is 5 years that they need to hold everything so they push very slow as they defend anything that happens and IMO that’s not worth it anymore given that Alliance have gradually been putting more and more effort in since I started queueing. It used to be fine when Alliance just gave up after they farmed SHGY for rep and stopped trying, but nowadays you just have to accept that LTs and a tower may burn.
I asked for you to cite a few, to prove that it was “lots” and “most”. Not single examples of each. I did not argue that they didnt exist, but that they were at any frequency of note.
And why were horde able to get that reinforcement advantage? Oh right the horde map advantage made it very easy to do so. So once again we get back to horde map advantage.
It still matters, alliance aren’t going to play a game where they get stuck north of SHGY every game. Not sure why you don’t understand that that isn’t enjoyable.
If horde weren’t playing scorched earth right now more alliance would queue as they would have a reasonable chance of winning and horde queue times would go down.
The reason is the same, horde have a major map advantage and are using it. The results are slightly different without reinforcements but then cause is the same.
Sorry I guess you just don’t see that as horde and think everything is fine and it’s entirely an alliance problem. Despite alliance doing just fine in the other two BG’s.
What happened when they changed the honor system and reinforcement system in TBC has zero relevance to the 1.12 patch in vanilla, when no such mechanics existed, and alliance won many if not more AVs than horde.
I am not sure how you think alliance being unable to hold their own territory is something more than alliance (in general) not caring to play as well. Apparently PVP for alliance isn’t enjoyable.
That deserves as much ridicule as can be heaped on you and those that post such crap. The ONLY reason this aleged “scorched earth” happens, is solely due to alliance (in general) not trying. Stop blaming the flood waters for your inability or unwillingness to build dams.
The reason is that alliance (in general) do not care to put the effort into trying, when a quicker loss will still result in a MoH.
I still think it is hilarious that you were one of the handful of retailers who were arguing for v1.12, as it would create more pvp, yet here we are, you making excuses for alliance who are phoning it in.
It’s entirely relevant as the map imbalances were there before the changes which is of course why this thread exists.
Well first the alliance positions at SH and surrounding areas are in fact much harder for alliance to hold. And once taken make it significantly harder for alliance to get south.
This is the exact issue that existed when reinforcements were added and was always an issue.
That’s fine keep pretending there are no map issues and enjoy your ever increasing queue times.
No of course alliance aren’t going to bother trying on a rigged map, horde would do the exact same thing.
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What you said PRIOR to Alliance pre-mades being squashed by Blizzard.
What you’re saying now.
Again, it didn’t seem like the map was that big of a deal for Alliance in general before pre-mades got sacked.
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And this attitude is why you will continue to and always lose AV. You think trying to win is futile so you don’t ever try to win – then pull mental gymnastics and blame it on the map.
No, you just BELIEVE its a rigged map, so you act like it is and give up causing the rest of your team to lose in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Alliance are so delusional and defeatist they THINK they can never win, so they never try to win, causing them to never actually win – confirming their own bias they created then cry about how “Its not me, its the world, the world is out to get me!”
Once in a blue moon – just by chance, enough of these alliance players who actually try to win find themselves all in an AV together and over an hour or so game they manage to pull out a win. Funny how that works when you remove the sandbaggers. But sure enough – next game enough defeatists will be in the AV match pulling up excuses like “the map is unfair” or “Its not optimal rep/hour to try to win an hour match” so they proceed to lose over and over.
Alliance, you will win when you cut out these people bringing you down. Until then you will struggle to win a 15v30 engagement because your own faction has condemned you to failure.
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No kidding. I mean they don’t seem to be able to help it. 
So, even if the war games show that it isn’t primarily a map issue some already have excuses lined up.
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It’ll prove that alliance in AV are trash as horde will be winning from the north side while alliance can’t. Btw, no one ever says the map layout is balanced. It has awful flaws for both sides. But the map is not why one side wins or loses. It’s the players.
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