Are you claiming that Johnny took sdomething that you wanted? Are you disputing that Johnny is entitled to that item?
Well this blew up more than I thought.
Thereâs a lot of bad info in this thread.
First, Iâm referring to progression content with organized guilds, not /roll in a pug (although this can apply to 5 or 10 man content; experienced many ninjas in UBRS vs only 1 in raids). We used ML and DKP, some other guilds used LC etc. There were many guilds who left things on FFA and used DKP or LC (kinda stupid, but it wasnât unheard of back then) The point is loot rules were clearly established as these were progression runs within a guild. However, if PUGS set loot rules at the start, it shouldnât make any difference. If you are the kind of person who thinks logging in lets you break your guild rules because you pay $15 a month, then good luck in Classic is all Iâll say. Or by your logic, feel free to spot 39 other people $15 each then. Or you could just pull those 2 giants on your own solo raid.
Donât get me wrong though. Itâs your computer, your wow account, and your in-game reputation. By all means, feel free to do what you please, regardless of your fellow guild members. But itâs also our computers, our wow accounts, and our desire to do with as we please. And if you desire to look after only yourself, youâll find yourself grouped with only yourself. Welcome to vanilla WoW.
Second, the Majordomo chest earlier in Vanilla was FFA regardless of ML settings. It was common for RLs to say, âStep back from the chestâ etc. There was no way to use in-game mechanics to prevent it, other than guild trust.
Third, it was extremely common to see call-out threads in vanilla. With the names of the character in the title. Heck, the pvp HWL and GM grind squads were going at each other constantly (although usually more drama between rival groups on the same faction). There was all kinds of drama and Blizzard almost never deleted anything. Obviously I donât think in 2019 forums will be used that way with Discord, etc. But calling out ninjas either in-game or in a post skates the line of harassment these days, as the differing opinions in this thread suggests. It will be interesting to see how Blizz handles it.
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This. It doesnât matter how Blizzard cracks down on these forums. People will find a way to police their own realm.
I am saying mislooting an item as an upgrade if its for an offspec is different than if a raid leader sets out loot rules then breaks those rules. If he does that then by wow policy he has performed a loot scam and GMs can and will interevene historically. However almost no one would ever set up proper and complete loot rules.
No, it will be damn near impossible to hold people accountable for their ninja looting acts in 2019 on these forums. Because most people in this day in age think holding someone accountable = Doxxing.
And doxxing is against the ToS.
I guess we will have to wait to see how far Blizzardâs hands off policy regarding loot issues in Classic will extend.
Iâm not arguing against them getting involved in what you refer to as âloot scamsâ. I simply would not hold my breath waiting for them to do so.
That loot scam policy was from retail for many expansions if not all of them before BfA got rid of it with personal loot.
Comments on wowhead/thottbot from 1.12 and up to even WotLK say it was still lootable by anyone regardless of Master loot.
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I know the âloot scamâ policy was in place from vanilla up to the implementation of personal loot.
We do not know, however, if that policy will be in place in Classic, especially if Blizzard did make a statement that they would not be getting involved in loot issues.
Think about it.
Even if they only took action in cases in which loot rules were clearly, explicitly and fully explained, CS reps would still need to investigate every loot ticket.
Even if they simply opened the ticket and saw that the ticket was regarding a âmisclickâ, they still had to open that ticket.
It takes even longer to investigate those tickets in which the person filing the ticket claims that Johnny took an item in violation of the loot rules. The CS rep has to go back and check the logs to verify if the loot rules were clearly, explicitly and fully explained. Even if the CS rep determines those loot rules were not clearly, explicitly and fully explained, he still had to spend that time investigating.
If Blizzard did issue a statement thatvthey would be getting involved in loot issues, why would they have a policy that would almost certainly require investigating every loot issue ticket to determine if that ticket fell under a very specific and extremely rare set of circumstances?
You do realize that policy does not stop the loot tickets and they still have to check every ticket. Just having a blanket statement that they will not intercede in mislooted items makes it so they can have a quick response to the ticket.
However it is dumb to think that there scam policy which has been around since launch would not apply to classic.
We shall see.
Blizzard seems to want to minimize any CS involvement in Classic and bringing that policy to Classic (especially when they added loot trading specifically to reduce the CS workload) seems counterintuitive to that goal. This is especially true when the circumstances in which they would get involved are so specific and extremely rare.
Once again, I am not arguing against Blizzard getting involved in what you refer to as âloot scamsâ. Iâm simply saying that I would not hold my breath waiting for them to do so.
Thatâs for Classic, not Vanilla though. In Vanilla, the most common GM action taken was moving Raid level gear from one character to another. Constantly.
While that does not specifically use the words âloot scamsâ, it does seem to me to be pretty clear about non involvement.
That is just my opinion, however. Your opinion may differ.
All we can do is wait to see how far that policy will extend.
I agree. The policy will be that Blizzard isnât trading any items. Scammed or not. Just like they typically didnât transfer scammed items in Vanilla. Raid Loot transfers were given between two legitimate and congenial players, usually because of a master looter failure, or something else. I had one GM ask whether it was a mistake in bidding, or a mistake in looting for an item, and while it was a mistake in looting, he said he probably wouldnât have transferred it if it had been a mistake in bidding. (The item was usable by the original recipient).
That is for loot trading⌠which is what you could do till the trading was implemented and what I did a few times in vanilla and tbc. Which is open a ticket and say hey I got this item it was supposed to go to X. From my experience these tickets needed to be opened by the person who got the loot.
Loot scams are different, that is a person scamming someone else which is still against Blizzard policy on the support website.
But did they give the stuff back? My experience from Vanilla was that if you got scammed, the person might get banned, but you didnât get your item or gold back.
According to the article on trade scams they cannot guarantee item restoration, and they also make a note that âthis may not result in the restoration of lost currency or property.â
However it seems like they do try and reverse any scam transactions.
The only interaction with reporting a loot scam, I got the pretty standard response that the loot rules were not properly established because they did not specify how the winner was to be determined.(didnât say highest roll wins) so it was not considered a loot scam.
Which is part of why I want to make sure that in classic people understand what it takes for loot rules to be properly established so you have an Avenue to distbute any scams where someone took something against the loot rules that were established.
âTrade scamsâ are vastly different from what you refer to as âloot scamsâ.
I would expect that Blizzard would still intervene in the case of âtrade scamsâ.
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yes, its allowed, grown people are allowed to decide who they play with !
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Actually that is very smart, we could make a Hashtag on IG called WoWninja and use it to post screenshots of their chars so people know. It could work you know.