You are talking about me, of course im going to respond and already stated as much. You have really been doing a top job of “ignoring me” so far.
Dont want me responding to me dont even mention me at all because its all lies in the first place.
Yeah, personally I would much rather Bliz just add 2H back and only add a 2H transmog as a temporary solution if they cant add 2H back for real right now, but are working on it.
Depends on what people want. If dps isn’t an issue then throw in a 2h runeforge and remove the restrictions on abilities and you have it back in 8.3 or tomorrow.
If you want to bring back MotFW and the increase in obliterate I don’t think that’s a good option and it didn’t really solve anything but created another layer of problems with balance. It’s better to have the 2 weapons to be as close as possible and then build a spec people enjoy.
I want them to add it back and attempt to balance it to the best of their ability, within reason. It doesn’t need to be perfect, but as long as it is as close as it was to DW previously, I am fine. If they need to add back in 2H only passives, that’s fine. Such additions wouldn’t affect DW.
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It wasn’t that far off in wrath. If we take what MotFW did initially, it was probably somewhere between 5% and 10% probably since it increased melee damage done by I think the max was 13% initially. When mastery came along though paired with razorice they had to increase it to I think 24% increased weapon damage.
Making a 2h runeforge combining fallen crusader and razorice just for 2h would go a long way. Km procs are another thing but that’s a little more complicated. I don’t think DW crit mechanics, as in how crits are done with ability usage, isn’t as much of a dps increase to worry about.
the difference of knowledge of who have experience by playing the spec against someone who don’t, astonishing
Grant it, i never player DK in wrath, but i did the others and its pretty much accurate
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Then what were the mechanics of Cata?
I think you misunderstand the issue many people have. It’s a feel/playstyle issue first and a balance issue second for many 2h DK’s. 2h Frost had burst and you felt powerful when you were blasting 2 or 3 Obliterates. It the same reason I can’t play Arms anymore, Arms warrior is mainly a Dot spec now. It’s number one source of damage is Deep Wounds. It makes me want to puke.
IMO I think it’s not so hard to balance. As it was in Cata and the past Obliterate should be the 2h bread and butter while Howling Blast should be DW bread and butter. They are for two different things. I know there are DK’s (one in particular) that likes to hawk over the forums and discourage these types of threads because he belives DW frost should be viable in every possible scenario. Most specs out there have to pick though, are they going to be heavy AoE or heavy ST. I think it can’t be all that hard for Blizzard to hash out.
That is called bad raid design. A good raid has elements that cater to every kind of damage source. That way every kind of damage is brought because it’s needed. As of late though it’s either super one-sided in favor of melee or ranged. Even as melee they can have more options, things that need to be CC, burst down, or AoE for instance.
Instead of Blizzard making 9 types of Mechanics going on in a raid perhaps they should spend more time making sure everyone has a job and is needed.
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Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.
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i feel exactly the same, its painful to play and watch
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Yeah, thats why I want my 2h Frost of old back. Im tired of the steady DPS stuff. Its boring. I want a true burst 2H DPS back…
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I think the gameplay just sucks right now. I played DW all throughout Wrath, played both in Cata because 1h str weapons were scarce, MoP is when the real split happened and I think thats when Masterfrost started and carried into WoD and I absolutely hated masterfrost and if you were on the forums during that time, other people that DW didnt like it either because it basically got rid of part of the spec (Rime) and funneled everything onto HB because with mastery 1 rune would do over half of what an obliterate would do, so 2 runes spent on it was completely out damaging it and people didnt like it. WoD was when 2h popularity really started to pop up and really wasnt that much different than MoP. Legion, in terms of gameplay, really wasnt that bad. Once you got a good way into the artifact it started to pick up in playstyle, had bonuses to obliterate, frost damage, some range on Frost Strike and Legendaries helped as well.
Then comes BFA, took the entirety of the artifact away, all the things in it that reduced downtime and crit damage for obliterate, the legendary stuff was basically gone as well.
We are left with a shell of a spec, while it performs dps wise, I would say the majority doesnt like the playstyle.
If you think about it, you can kind of split the history of Frost into 3 eras, the wrath/cata era where everything was pretty much the standard with MotFW just adding in some increased melee damage for 2h. Both played the same or very very close (in wrath some people didnt use plague strike for an easier rotation) and there really were no complaints. I was wrong earlier in the % modifiers that MotFW gave to 2h, even being nerfed by 2% in 4.2 ending with a 10% increase to melee damage.
MoP and Wod being the second era which brought in the different direction of each sub spec, which we all know how that worked out, balance nightmare and one ending up cut.
Then Legion and BFA which Legion had the BoS playstyle, BFA just dropped a lot of stuff, and this is the era that KM also changed.
I personally just want an older playstyle back somewhat. The further back you go the happier Ill be.
Wrath was probably the most fun, you always had something to do, Obliterate hit hard even in DW rivaling that of Blood which was the physical damage 2h spec. I dont know how accurate the video I am watching since its a Wrath private server, but the biggest crits so far I have seen are around 26-27k. DW Frost, on the same Boss 0 buff was doing around 25-26k with obliterate.
A DW PvP player got a 28k obliterate crit in Wrath so these major meaty crits werent exclusive to just 2h. I would rather go back to that with a 2h runeforge for 2h frost combining Fallen Crusader and Razorice and call it a day.
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Thank you Zedthul, what you said is all too true, and made so much sense here. I really hope Blizz gets to understand all that and why we all want 2h Frost so badly. Hope 2h Frost’s triumphant return comes at last in Shadowlands if they indeed get to listen to us and all the good explanations we’ve been trying to give out. And we need more TRUE burst 2h DPS to come back, no more DW or DOT BS for us like in the last two xpacs we’ve gotten. Such a playstyle isn’t fun at all like you said. And games are supposed to be abut having fun, not being stuck with “fun detected” like with current Frost at all.
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Here is a valid question. What does 2h or DW have to do with spec design and whether or not an ability hits hard?
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Amen to that
This is why everyone needs to just start ignoring kel, theyre in an unhealthy amount of these 2h forums and they have an unhealthy amount of comments. They dont have any current experience playing frost and has to go off what other people tell them about the spec. Absolutely just a waste of time discoursing with them
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Go off of what who says? Has what I said been wrong even though most of what has been talked about is from past expansions? Oh yeah… armory trumps actual knowledge without actually refuting what people say. What was I thinking.
I rather have the right information than to talk crap about other players. Strange how you 2h supporters almost always resort to that.
It means you dont play the game and dont actually understand and feel to the full extent the imperfections and flaws in the spec and you dont compete at competitive levels to know much about the balance and how duel wield actually is for the spec. It feels like trash, It is trash, It will fall apart again next expansion when its bandaid buffs are reverted. Just better hope the new abilities they might add somehow end up having huge meaning for the classes rotation or else its going to be a bad time.
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It was confirmed during the Blizzcon presentation that nobody is getting “new” abilities. We are getting some random, old abilities back, and some abilities that were either PvP specific or spec specific are becoming baseline. That won’t change the play-style though.
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This is very saddening to hear. They did say 2h frost is something they would like to do. So maybe they will make more changes than they thought they would.
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