Frost, time to end DW vs 2h and Talk about real issues

Classes Death Knight
107

Frosts mastery should be changed cause honestly x% more frost damage is really boring (as is most masteries that are flat damage) but making two seperate masteries is not a good solution either. Better to just make a better mastery that fits the spec as a whole better while being more interesting and engaging.

As much as I do want 2h frost back, its a bit more realistic to ask for a mog option RIGHT NOW. Perhaps later when the ground work for frost has been refined, but till then I would be 100% okay with a mog option.

The same can be said for other specs aswell, some say its opening a pandoras box but honestly who cares? Let Fury warriors mog 1hders, let surv hunters mog to DW (mind you going from 2h to dw is a bit more tricky), but the tech is there for artifact weapons, why not extend it towards weapons in general?

108

That’s fair, I would be 100% for a mog option if Bliz said that was just being added as a stop-gap while they work on actually implimenting 2H Frost back into the game.

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109

The tricky part is making the animations work properly, both weapon and auto attack animations. When creating the transmog system they probably didnt even have a thought that Artifacts would be a thing later on or people would want to DW over a 2h.

Mastery is boring but what it could be is a who knows but right now, it only applies to frost damage. If Plague Strike comes back, which people would probably ignore for the ease, it would be another thing not on its list. I would say to have the more mastery, the more frequent KM procs instead of having it based off of crits and have it give a crit. Mastery increasing the chance at gaining km procs could be an option, but then you would probably be looking to getting a certain % and ignoring it. The spec might need a complete overhaul for a different mastery to be introduced. There isnt much in terms of base mechanics to really build upon. KM for oblit and Frostscythe, Rime for HB and that is about it now.

I would like to see KM, since its basically just for one ability now, to give armor pen, possibly mastery could increase its armor pen as well as frost damage. Just so it scales with it? Not a groundbreaking idea but its something. Anything over 100% armor pen could be added into increase its damage after that but I think that might be just too much going on in terms of what mastery would do and everything going into making that change.

Its kind of complicated when you start delving into the mastery and the kit and trying to make it interesting or trying to work obliterate in it as well.

Mastery right now applies to everything except Obliterate kind of getting to the point of, just remove it if its that much of a detriment. Or, Inexorable assualt (BFA version) is baseline and does it on every cast of obliterate, doesnt stack, and does an additional I dont know, 80% attack power as Frost. It wouldnt be one major hit, but it would at least be doing some damage again.

The issue is it is physical damage while the rest of the spec is frost and when that is the case no matter what, when you start getting mastery if thats your best stat everything is going to outscale it.

Change Frostscythe to replace Obliterate for cleave situations, bring down how much damage it does to that of below Obliterate so it doesnt overtake it in single target scenarios, take away the crit multiplier and run with it.

There is actually quite a bit to go through when you dive into it and start trying to reduce or minimize the problems within the spec.

Downtime has been one of the biggest things mentioned since WoD when this “juggernaut” fantasy came out. It was mentioned in Legion and the artifact took care of a lot of it, and then BFA hit and it was all just “poof” gone.

110

I don’t think a mog option would fix this though sadly enough. If anything, I think it should be the reverse where we get 2h back, but DW becomes a mog option until they can figure out how to make both work. They can fix the animations to let both the main and offhand attacks work together instead of just the mainhand being the one attacking anyway.

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111

The technology is already in the game, you would just have faster white attack animations and single skill attack animations which result in 2 damage numbers (which is what occurred with the old paladin seals anyway). So, there really is nothing holding it back.

112

What about making Frost a 2H only class but then giving them a mog option of the DK creating an icy mirror copy of their 2H and allowing the aesthetic look of DWing two 2handers.

That way, everyone wins.

113

I already suggested something similar with making the DW mogs over 2h work properly and adding offhand attack animations for 2 handers with DW mogged over them. But yeah, such an idea can let everyone win in the end, as long as we can get it fixed up for the animations to fully function properly. Which I think won’t be a problem at all if Blizz gets off their lazy butts and get to work on that of course.

114

You dont understand what I was talking about then because im talking about putting a DW skin over a 2h weapon and while it works for the artifact, meaning you can do it, the rest of it isnt in place to allow that. You only attack with your main hand. We dont know how the abilities would even work, if it would take the DW ability animations or the 2h animation but its safe to assume that it would be the 2h animation based on auto attacks.

They can however do a 2h skin over dw weapons and the animations work auto attacks work at least. For ability animations, again we cant actually test it so we have to assume how it would work. As far as we know they havent done this stuff because its a limitation of the system and it would have to be written in.

115

@Kelliste

When you say animations are reffering to swing speeds etc? Or the actual animation of using the weapon? Because alot of the animations for weapon attacks are shared across weapon types, amd even shared between 1h and 2h (Mongoose Bite comes to mind, same with Templar’s Verdict) it would just be a matter of applying Frost’s particle effects (the light blue one).

Obviously it’s easier said than done, but its not undoable.

116

That’s what I kept trying to tell her before so many times, yet she kept trying to find ways to make it so that it appears to be truly impossible. Yet in reality, like we both said, even if it’s hard, it is NOT impossible at all. Did you know she compared that to gluing feathers onto someone’s arms to make them be able to fly? That was a rather dumb comparison honestly, especially since while one is truly impossible, the other is NOT, no matter how much work it takes in the end.

117

Ironically, the currently used obliterate animation is just the old 2H one with the two one handed weapons placed together to look like a 2 hander.

And, frankley, that is part of why we pay a monthly subscription - for Bliz to figure these things out. This is why if 2H Frost is not added back, I will not be buying this exp.

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118

You can actually test this one right now since we can equip a 2h and mog the artifact over it. The offhand just sits there doing absolutely nothing. We cant test obliterate or anything like that since there is no access to those with a 2h to know how the animations for those would even play out. Its mainly because the 2h is equipped in the main hand slot and the system has absolutely no clue what to do with the offhand and that can only be fixed with doing some work inside the transmog system which wasnt meant to do all this kind of stuff and just meant to apply 2h-2h, 1h-1h and so on and so on.

The animations are shared across classes with different colors sure, but again the transmog system wasnt really meant for what people are asking from it. Could it be done?

The 2h over a DW weapon would probably just needed animations added to it, which I dont know if the system can handle that since it just really does armor and weapon appearances, but its a lot more doable than going the other way, dw skin over a 2h weapon that is.

119

Well, the functionally clearly hasn’t been properly or fully implemented given the fact that all the Frost DK weapons skills require DW.

Regardless, I think it is pretty easy to imagine how to properly implement it.

120

For 2h skin over a DW weapon set they would have to figure out a way to add in animations to the transmog system so that Obliterate and Frost Strike would use those animations. We dont know if it is even possible to do within that system or if something else would need to be created or if a rewrite is required for transmog. The system was created for item visuals.

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121

That exact thing used to be in the game, the animations exist in their archive files. Both skills are currently a single strike with 2 damage numbers. Nothing would have to change. Just have a 2H weapon in the hands of a DK rather than two 1Hand weapons.

122

And again and again, you want us to stop responding to you but you do this.

The glue feathers to your arm was just showing that not everything is possible so the statement “anything is possible” isnt good to use. It had nothing to do with the ability to do something.

Not to mention you didnt understand what I was talking about and the fact that you would rather remove DW and replace it with 2h and have a DW transmog option just goes to show your hate for the weapon set which makes me even wonder if you care about the spec itself.

A DW skin over a 2h weapon does not function while a 2h skin over DW is a lot easier since you just have to figure out a way to add in the Obliterate and Frost Strike animations that the system was not intended to do.

123

The question is, can those be done through the transmog system. We have absolutely no idea if that system can handle that since it was designed for item visuals and not class animations. It could be, it might not. I really dont know.

124

Considering all the complex functions in the game already and the fact that transmog is already in the game, I cannot imagine it would be extremely complicated to make it work, assuming the functionality doesn’t already exist.

125

I’m only going to say this once, after that, I’m going back to ignoring you.

I never said “anything is possible”, I said that “NOT EVERYTHING is impossible”. And I was responding to someone else that was responding to you for the record. I was trying to let him know what kind of argument you used against me and how it’s pointless trying to argue with you with the way you are.

But if you take me responding to someone else that is responding to you as still responding to you, then don’t bother with every post that mentions you at all. I was never talking to YOU at all back there in the first place anyway, just SOMEONE ELSE who was doing just that.

126

That is one thing that its up to Blizzard, if it isnt possible in the transmog system and it would need a rewrite then say it, or if it is possible then they just need to write it in.

There is always the way I suggested to bring in 2h if transmog doesnt work out, but its a nerf to DW.