Move some passive damage to active abilities.
I believe all abilities should be baseline and Talents should buff said abilities. I’d like to have my whole tool kit available and stable.
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Don’t understand what?
What you don’t understand is the it’s the spec that sucks and the weapon has no bearing on that at this point.
It’s not some overly complicated spec and never has been and it hasn’t changed much if any since the beginning of BFA other than Icecap being a thing now.
I think almost everyone is in agreement that the spec is trash. Why do you think I quit? Frost was so good that I couldn’t stand the excitement?
I do agree that the spec needs a lot of work right now, but I also don’t understand why it would be hard to bring back 2h as part of the process. If all the specials are using AP instead of weapon damage, and procs all go ppm instead of percentage based, all that’s left is the difference in white damage, which doesn’t seem like an insurmountable problem.
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And the runeforges of course. More frost damage when all but one ability is frost based is a big deal.
They use weapon damage as well unfortunately.
But primary issue is runeforges and auto attack balancing.
There also isnt another spec thst makes use of dual weilding 1 handed str weapons so thats our bag apparently.
Actually, they dont. Even what was working in the alpha and only using the main hand weapon dps, it comes out to being higher than what the ability tooltip. Even the ap coefficient * damage multiplier is higher than what the tooltip shows.
If you take the (Attack Power + Weapon DPS * 6) * AP Coefficient * Damage Multiplier formula that was in alpha, my obliterate (using it because there are less modifiers) would deal 6,846 before armor. However the tooltip shows 5,502 before armor. If you just used the ap coefficient 60%+60% or 120% of attack power + versa when it should be 5,910 damage before armor.
So something isnt right if you start doing the calculations, both using the wowhead obliterate tooltip as a guide, or using the other calculation as well that adds in weapon dps.
So far nothing has been right in terms of how to calculate the damage. Even if I equip a 2h that has higher weapon dps, or even weapon damage which is almost double that of DW, i lose damage on abilities (could be due to the loss of 1% versatility but I currently dont have any crit haste 1h weapons of the same ilvl).
It would seem the ap coefficient isnt right and there is a lot of hidden stuff behind the scenes.
Actually, they do.
Yea, the formulas are probably off, but without a doubt, weapon damage is included. I know because I’ve tested with 0 outside influences. (no gear, no talents that impact damage, no runeforges). Just white weapons that only contribute weapon damage.
Unless this gets changed via a hotfix or patch this will remain the case.
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They are WAY off. In the case of the alpha calculation I should be doing 1000+ more damage. Even with just using 120% ap its over what the tooltips say it should be.
Swapping between a DW and a 2h, with only slightly less versa (5.75 I think with 2h and 6.15 with DW) I see a 200 damage drop but the weapon damage is almost twice as much but weapon dps is only about 40 higher for 2h, and the same str. Im just going off of the tooltip which should represent the info in your character sheet before armor.
I would say its not weapon damage that is actually playing a part in it, but instead the weapon dps that the article talked about on WoWhead about the new ability calculation. Its actually quite simple though it seems like it just isnt right. What is the actual answer though, I dont know. Maybe ill try to find some white weapons tomorrow and just check it as well.
Maybe you’re not using the correct formula? Most abilities inherit 2/3 of the attack power from the mainhand and 1/3 of the attack power of the offhand. You’re right about the x6 factor tho.
Only current ability that does not use 2/3-1/3 is frostwyrms fury.
Thank you Worthiest, but I don’t think we can convince her at all sadly enough about ANYTHING we say about our points of view or what we find out sadly enough. It feels like talking to BOTH a brick wall and a broken record at the same time unfortunately. I think it’s best if we just not bother convincing her and just keep talking to each other and other 2h Frost supporters.
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Update on what I said. This only applies to abilities that don’t actually hit with your weapons, like howling blast. When it comes to Obliterate, the damage is calculated in the following way (notice the 0,5 factor for the OH damage):
Damage = [(Strength + MHDPS * 6) * 0.6 + (Strength + OHDPS * 6) * 0.6 * 0.5] * spec aura * vers
This gave me the exact tooltip for my obliterate. Spec aura is currently 7%.
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Thanks biceps. Sorry you had to wade in, but still happy nonetheless. Good conversations require good info as a foundation and you have always been great at providing good info.
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This ais a bit of semantics, but is correct. You dont use the weapon damage portion in the calculation because it is variable (and they hate variance). It uses dps because its the average and remains constant (but is based off the weapon damage). Sorry if the way this was stated by me originally threw you off and it was my mistake on how it was presented.
Bicceps has the formula you can use for obliterate specifically in the above post.
Damage calculation is not a point of view and the information out there, on wowhead that is supposed to have up to date information, is wrong in this case.
What we have been talking about isnt even DW vs 2h but about damage calculation. Keep assuming and not reading, it doesnt make you look good.
What is this spec aura? And no wonder why I was never getting the correct value since it looks like that is a hidden damage increase or at least I dont know where to fine it. Its doesnt show up as a buff or in the spell book as far as I could tell so thats where the difference was coming from. 5502 in game, 5502 in math, well rounded up of course.
I put the blame on Blizzard since they dont all the information unless I just dont know where to look for it.
Spec auras are what they primarily use to balance since Legion I think? Instead of having to individually tweak things if a spec is behind, they can tweak the entire spec at once.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=258245/patch-7-1-5-build-23194-spell-legendary-and-spec-aura-changes
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Well thats good to know. I even called that something had to be hidden somewhere. I was going through EVERYTHING and not hitting the tooltip and really not even getting close. I knew the offhand does 50% of the main hand, its that one thing that was throwing the whole thing off.
And it was in the article -.- thats what I get for not completely reading it.