Who else is irritated thats in 2019 and we still dont have flying yet?

[Raiyyn-lothar]

It’s world of Warcraft , not World of Equestrians.

But don’t you have to be somewhere where you may encounter foes (AI or Player) in order to be at War?

[Tinyblast-korialstrasz (Tinyblast)]

I do believe that, I never said nor implied otherwise. I have no problem with them adding flying, provided that it’s done so based on sound game design decisions, and not too early. If 65% of players wanted flying, then adding it 35% (8.4 months) into the xpac seems fair and is fine by me, just try to implement it in such a way that doesn’t wreck the game for a lot of people who are currently happy with it.

Yeah but the thing is its already wrecking it for a lot of people that enjoy flying, so I guess who cares about flyers then is what you are saying. It doesn’t seem fair to me or fine to delay it any longer. There is nothing out in the BFA world that hasn’t been done by most people already so there is nothing to wreck. It can’t be profs since they are about useless for making gold right now. Since tuesday when the new raids were released there hasn’t been any uptick in my gold making with alch and herb like most non-flyers say there would be. And as for pvp we know WM isn’t going to stay like this, there is no way Blizz lets the Horde stay this mad about the 400 gear so it will go back to dead just like before.

We have been without flying in BFA for five months so there is no reason to delay it any longer except for Blizz new metric time played.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

The more I do these things, the less issue I have navigating the terrain of the zones because I see it more and learn what’s around me.

I’m in my mid-fourties. I have one pair of glasses that lets me see far away things. I take my glasses off to see things up close (reading materials, for instance). When it comes to looking at a computer screen, I just have to accept that everything is going to be slightly blurry. Maybe if I was 20 years younger and could get one prescription that made my computer screen crystal clear, I might be more wowed by the ground terrain. As it is, it’s a major PITA. You can’t navigate around what you can’t see. Also, the computer I play on doesn’t support ultra high graphics settings, so that may be why I have trouble even navigating through town. One thing I will say, though, is that I have no problems riding around Ironforge or Stormwind. They actually have clear cut passageways and bridges. Borealus has stairs all over the place and food vendors in the middle of the street and a bunch of other junk that makes riding around it extremely annoying for someone like me.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

What purpose does “grinding” all your play time away on things you don’t like serve?

It raises the item level on your necklace. It allows you to unlock flying. It gives you extra loot bags. That’s the whole point. In the past, the rep grinds were mostly cosmetic and optional. This expansion, they’re mandatory. But that’s another topic.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

Yes. I believe those are called Warfronts. There are also raid instances. I don’t see your point. How will flying to those places diminish gameplay?

[Raiyyn-lothar]

Yes. I believe those are called War fronts. There are also raid instances. I don’t see your point. How will flying to those places diminish gameplay?

This expansion, in particular, focuses on the Alliance/Horde war. Fighting NPCs in a Warfront or bosses in a raid instance (or any instance, for that matter), doesn’t really constitute a war.

That’s part of the issue some have with Warfronts to begin with. They would be fantastic if they were PvP and there was a chance to lose. They are tolerable, at best, because of the gear reward (toys/pets/mounts in the “off week”) because they are fights against NPCs and there is no chance of losing the “war”. So much potential lost to poor implementation.

Also, that’s not what folks are talking about.

They are talking about random encounters with “enemies” in the actual world where the war would normally take place. Those types of encounters can’t happen if everyone is in the air miles above the “action” (causing there to be no action). For some, that diminishes game play.

Personally, I don’t care about PvP, instanced or world. I don’t PvP much and when I do it’s a random BG or the old “PvP WQ” areas in Legion for Honor to get the pet/mount/title rewards. But for a lot of players PvP is their main game-play. For them being grounded can be fairly important.

Blizz could “fix” the issue simply by having flight unavailable while WM is turned on, but they won’t. They could have done the same thing when PvP servers were separated and they didn’t.

But claiming that the "plight* (for lack of a better word popping in my head) of PvP players based on PvE largely not being effected by it is a bit disingenuous and short sided.

I, for the most part, agree with most of what you’re saying…from a PvE players perspective. But I can still see the other side. I think that is the basis for most forum “wars” (also for lack of a better word)… One side simply can’t, or won’t, see any validity in the other side.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

I’m in my mid-fourties. I have one pair of glasses that lets me see far away things. I take my glasses off to see things up close (reading materials, for instance). When it comes to looking at a computer screen, I just have to accept that everything is going to be slightly blurry.

I’m 49. I have a pair of glasses that let me see far away things and close up things (those pesky bi-focal thingamabobs!) and a pair of computer glasses that let me see in the middle. Plus I have a pair of prescription sun glasses for driving in the day that only let me see far away things…gotta be able to see those darn signs!

Also, the computer I play on doesn’t support ultra high graphics settings, so that may be why I have trouble even navigating through town.

Very well could be. One good thing about WoW is that it can mostly still be played on a toaster. Unfortunately those toasters just won’t last forever.

Borealus has stairs all over the place and food vendors in the middle of the street and a bunch of other junk that makes riding around it extremely annoying for someone like me.

I will totally give you that Boralus is horrid. I can see clearly and I run on ultra settings and I can’t find my way around that place. The rest of the world I have no issue with. But Boralus needs to go up in .

It raises the item level on your necklace. It allows you to unlock flying. It gives you extra loot bags. That’s the whole point. In the past, the rep grinds were mostly cosmetic and optional. This expansion, they’re mandatory. But that’s another topic.

I guess we just see this differently. I get your point, but I just don’t feel like it’s “mandatory”. At least it’s not unless you raid at the “world top 100” level, anyway.

I raid. And I do my best to keep my neck at a reasonably good level. But I’m not going to kill myself, or burn myself out on a game I genuinely love to play, because I might be a point or two behind. I will get there.

The only things rep vendors sell that could be considered “mandatory” are recipes. I have the one or two star ones, I will get the others when I get them. I’m okay with using a couple more mats than someone else. The difference in rank is just not high enough for me to care.

I just don’t find “grinding” until you can’t stand the game anymore to be of any benefit to anyone for any reason. Of course, that is totally my own personal (and totally garbage) opinion.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

This expansion, in particular, focuses on the Alliance/Horde war . Fighting NPCs in a Warfront or bosses in a raid instance (or any instance, for that matter), doesn’t really constitute a war .

They constitute battles, and a war is simply a set of battles. If you wanted to play a War game, then Warcraft is where you should be. Then you could focus on fighting a bunch of battles to win a war. But this is the World of Warcraft. In other words, it’s the world where the war takes place. I am completely puzzled by your assertion that fighting battles has nothing to do with war.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

I am completely puzzled by your assertion that fighting battles has nothing to do with war.

That’s not actually what I said.

But this is the World of Warcraft. In other words, it’s the world where the war takes place

Yes, I realize. But the world isn’t where you’re saying the war is. Instances are where you’re saying the world is.

For many, flight takes the war out of the world.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

They are talking about random encounters with “enemies” in the actual world where the war would normally take place. Those types of encounters can’t happen if everyone is in the air miles above the “action” (causing there to be no action). For some, that diminishes game play.

What does that have to do with flying? Do you think we want flying mounts so that we can just fly around the world and hover over the action while merely observing? No one is suggesting that. Everyone would simply hop on their flying mounts and fly to the action the way a Champion of the Alliance should. Like we do in modern times. We don’t force our Generals to walk to the front or ride on horseback. We fly them there via plane and/or helicopter. If they spend any time in a vehicle, they get a chauffeur to boot. They already put in their time as a lowly Lieutenant and humped their ruck. They don’t have to walk anymore. As a former medic who served for several years in a light infantry unit, I’m pretty familiar with how war works.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

What does that have to do with flying?

Did you read the whole post?..

If you are flying above everything, you can’t engage as “randomly” as they would like. You have to see something and choose to “head down into battle”. Battle can’t just find you; you have to actually seek it out.

That diminishes the “danger” in the world. It takes away from the feeling of always being in danger that a lot of PvP players want in their natural game play experience.

Do you think we want flying mounts so that we can just fly around the world and hover over the action while merely observing? No one is suggesting that.

Umm… No. And I also did not suggest that (which you said since you used “no one”…).

You’re probably not ever going to see the “other side of the coin”, so to speak. I will stop trying to explain now.

[Rastlin-eldrethalas (Rastlin)]

There is no reason other than spite to withhold flight at this point.

Flight is a bad mechanic.

It’s like Mounts that were locked at a speed well below the speed of your max riding skill.
it needs to be re-designed.

The 78 hearts I received prove otherwise!

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

That diminishes the “danger” in the world. It takes away from the feeling of always being in danger that a lot of PvP players want in their natural game play experience.

Fine. If PvP players want that, they don’t have to fly. The rest of us want to fly. I don’t PvP. To each their own playstyle. Many of us don’t want to play a game where battle finds us whether we want it to or not. We want to raid, do dungeons, quest, and even PvP on our schedule. That’s not an unreasonable expectation for a game. Me flying doesn’t diminish your danger level. When you say a lot of PvP players want danger in their natural game play experience, you mean that a lot of PvP players want others to be in danger in their natural game play experience. Because that’s who flying impacts: the players who want to fly. If you don’t want to fly, then don’t fly.

[Tinyblast-korialstrasz (Tinyblast)]

I love WPVP and definitely want flight back lol.

With Blizz just announcing that the 400 gear will be nerfed down to 385 unfortunately WM might start to go back to dying and that’s with just ground mounts.

[Norezfou-moonrunner (Norezfou)]

Flying has no effect on people mounting up and running away. Nice try but bad argument.

[Raiyyn-lothar]

If you don’t want to fly, then don’t fly.

Umm… I do want to fly. I said I don’t PvP, not much at least and that when I did it was random BGs. I also said that Blizzard could “fix” the issue by simply making flight unavailable while WM was turned on.

I just don’t even know what to say or why it’s so difficult to see someone else’s side of the argument for so many people. I seriously didn’t mean to upset you; it seems that you are very upset I’m just not sure why.

But just so you know…

I do want to fly. I love flying. I have a large collection of mounts that I enjoy using. I get what you’re saying. I don’t, necessarily, disagree with you (which I also already said). Using “global” terms such as “we” and “everyone” includes, you know… “all of us”, which, coincidentally, means me too.

I just can see their side of things, even if their side doesn’t align with what I want in the game.

Many of us don’t want to play a game where battle finds us whether we want it to or not. We want to raid, do dungeons, quest, and even PvP on our schedule.

I am aware. I happen to be one of the “many of us”…

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

I seriously didn’t mean to upset you; it seems that you are very upset I’m just not sure why.

I’m not upset with you. I’m frustrated that Blizzard has doubled down on the no-flight philosophy that they’ve embraced for almost five years now. I only see downsides, and the upsides players have put forward do not seem compelling.

[Drammy-undermine]

Dude it is 2019 and we have no flying, no housing, no parkour, crappy AI and some of the sloppiest cinematics in any modern MMO.

[Hardwire-velen (Hardwire)]

And still no dance studio.

[Verethíel-frostmourne]

I hope we don’t get flying until the next raid tier!