This is what I think I’m seeing more and more in keys. My single target has increased as I would expect with iLvl but other specs are just pulling way ahead.
Something interesting is a “damage to bosses” breakdown.
Not sure how they’re coming to those numbers, I assume it’s including a lot of down time and no adds, but that should affect all specs equally. However the number is arrived at for the most part it’s the usual AoE suspects at the top of the “damage to bosses” charts. And when you’re in the key and you get the added damage from adds it makes feral look even worse.
With the total dungeon time being the denominator I guess there’s an argument that the numbers could reflect lower key times from having hard hitting AOE specs in your run.
Not sure if that would be symptom, cause, or have any meaningful effect. But my experience in keys is we’re not the “You can bring them along for bosses” spec we used to be.
Someone else brought that up and while in general I believe this is probably a correct assumption, if you dive down on just one of those dungeons, and that’s just for 15’s, you get past 40k records.
So there’s probably enough data there to make some general conclusions.
Edit:
Actually, thinking about this, I’m not so sure that’s a safe assumption in one sense. I’d say raids have a much higher likelihood of being recorded, but it may be that there is a lot more data on keys.
The assumption being you have people that log encounters. They log 2 raids a week, but maybe they’re also logging 10-20 keys. If you don’t log yourself you have much higher chance of having one of those people in a raid, so while it looks like all raids are logged and keys aren’t, in reality it’s just that the larger group size of raids means more people get captured for less effort while the ratio of keys to raids means there’s potentially more data on keys, although it’s spread out a lot more by dungeon and level.
If you have io installed, which most people who take m+ seriously do, it automatically logs you. Then if you ever upload your raid logs, it’ll end up uploading anything you’ve got logged, that’s why you see so many m+ logs. As an example, that’s why I’ve got logs for every dungeon. Every week I live log for my raid group and that will upload logs for the dungeons I’ve done throughout the week.
WCL has completion data like IO does ( and like IO, probably from armory ) but I’m pretty sure the DPS data requires manually logging and uploading the data. It does looks like if you leave logging on for an entire weak it will break it all out.
I just started logging my own keys last week and while for me WCL has data for all dungeon, it only has DPS data on runs I manually uploaded.
Not sure if having IO installed has any effect on this. Unless you’re talking about a desktop updater which I don’t use.
Yeah, I’m referring to the desktop app. MRT can do it as well if you opt for it, but pretty much any time you get into group content even up to torghast it’ll start logging. My logs compile into the same file and when I start live logging it uploads everything I’ve done to WCL.
Forget frenzyband.
Grizzle was right… apex is WAY more fun.
With frenzy I was having fun some of the time (big pulls with berserk)
With Apex im having fun ALL the time.
I even made a big orange aura to go with it.
The dungeon and pull pattern of the tank have a large effect on numbers like this. Something like Spires or Plaguefall (many small packs one after another) is naturally going to cater more to a DK than Feral.
OTOH something like HOA or Gambit (large packs in 2-3m windows plus boss rush) is much better for Feral’s overall damage. Feral’s damage in dungeons relies a lot on efficient trinket usage - so figuring that out relative to how the tank is pulling is extremely important and basically impossible to do in a pug for a single dungeon.
It makes sense but the logic is kind of backwards when thinking from Blizzard’s point of view and position of changing AoEs as well. Yeah our AoE can theoretically scale to as many targets as there are in range which is rare for a class to have without any scaling down past x targets, but when most classes were changed to that kind of system to stop massive dungeon pulls, our damage potential is effectively limited to those same amounts but without the higher power in comparison just baseline.
i can confirm that guys theory as well, when a tank can do more aoe then a feral spamming swipe and procing BT for primal wrath, it just plan sucks, then the tank goes, go to target dummies to practice, am like feral needs a aoe buff
Run to run yes. But if you’re looking at 99th percentile I think you can safely assume what ever the best situation for that spec was, that’s what happened.
And if you look at every spec the same way you can safely assume that’s what happened on those runs as well.
If you look at the Dungeon data in this post you don’t see the same type of variation you see in raids where some specs are vastly better for one type of fight and not for another. For the most part the spec that does the most damage does the most damage in every dungeon. As you go down the list for any particular dungeon there would be only minor swaps in the specs position from their average ranking.
Mind you, you’re going to want to pull around your best player in the group. So you can take a Feral and couple it with a Destro Lock; who do you think the pulls are going to be based around? Not the Feral. So it doesn’t hold true 100% of the time. The Feral could still parse in the 99th percentile, but that would be luck and not because it was the best situation for that Feral, he just happened to make the most out of that pull.
I get what you’re saying, but slightly lopsided data when looking at it from that point. You are correct in the assessment that the top damage spec will most likely be the top damage for all runs (few outliers), but that’s more because of how they’re tuned as opposed to tanks pulling around them specifically.
At some point this argument is just a distraction. Dungeons are pulled the way the are because that’s META we have. Of course you could pull the dungeon one mob at a time with a lot of CC and flip the results on its head, but what would that prove and what use would that be?
Oh, no, that’s not at all what I meant. You’re going to pull around your best player. So even with the top parsing Ferals, I’m going to guarantee that the majority of those pulls weren’t made around Ferals CDs.
Feral just made the best of the situation for that run. With a Lock in the group, those pulls are always going to be made around the Lock and not the Feral. Even if that Feral does parse 99th percentile in that run, it’s not because:
To pull around a Feral Druid would be a bad run for everyone. The great thing about Feral though is you can understand the run and make the most off of someone elses CD’s. Save that 4piece for when Infernal is about to come off of CD because you can guarantee a large pull thanks to Infernal + 4 piece, in which you can capitalize on that as well and try to do your macho damage then.
End result could put you in the 99th percentile, but it wasn’t because that was the best situation for YOU. It’s simply that YOU made the best outcome given that situation
All I was trying to say.
