These buffs might help feral a bit more in raid, but in m+, they are simply negligible. Thrash and swipe combined make up like 8-9% of our damage in keys. Our melee attacks do more damage than that. Primal wrath also does around 3-4% of our damage so buffing it by 10% also does nothing. We either need a big buff to our tier set to help our aoe, or we need close to 100% damage increases on swipe and thrash, and I’m still not confident that it would be enough to put us in line with some of the other specs. Some specs like WW, demo, mages, fury wars, frost dks, etc would need to be nerfed by like 50%+ to come down to ferals level, and I just don’t see that happening. =/
8 Likes
Can we stop making things up? Melee swings aren’t going to out damage Swipe, let alone Swipe and Thrash combined (and that’s before even considering compounded Frenzyband damage) unless you are either:
- Doing a key where the damage - and these buffs - do not matter.
- Bad.
Why on earth would you make this comparison specifically? Yes, let’s compare ourselves to the meta specs constantly (a goal which is obviously not happening) so we can justify complaining.
Like, there is definitely still an argument to be made that the AoE buffs aren’t going to move the needle. This isn’t it.
Here is a damage breakdown from my 15 mists key. Melee is above trash, primal wrath, and swipe.
Why would I make a comparison to meta specs? Because contrary to popular belief, I like being able to play at a competitive level. Unless you have good friends on meta classes to carry you in groups for high IO, you won’t get into any high keys on your own. Your only option is to run your own key for the rest of your life.
3 Likes
How on earth is your Swipe damage so low? What are you doing? Here’s my 16 mists from Tuesday (using Apex, which would have even fewer globals for Swipe):
Because on big packs I’m not swipe spamming. I use it to proc bloodtalons along with rake and thrash. So on a big pull I open rake, swipe, TF + thrash into primal wrath. I spam swipe but when it comes time to reapply primal wrath I start that rotation over to get a bloodtalons’d primal wrath. This ends up yielding more damage than just swipe spamming and reapplying PW with no BT. I’m still doing 11-12k in keys without 4 piece which seems to be close to what most ferals are doing. It’s still way behind other classes though.
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More evidence:
Thrash is still ticking. The proper reapplication for Bloodtalons is to pool energy, Swipe, PW, Rake, Shred, BT procs again.
Edit: unless you absolutely need the stun from a stealthed Rake, you get more DPS from opening with a Sunfire. I think at 4+ mobs, Sunfire > Rake
And still an overall DPS loss from doing it the correct way lol
Ok buddy. Have fun sitting on the forums thinking you know more than everyone for a class you don’t play.
More than everyone else? Nah. More than you, yes.
Melee should not be higher than your swipe damage in a key.
And using Frenzyband, you can pop Berserk on that first pull and have it up and ready by the time you hit the first boss.
And with how Frenzy works, Swipe > Thrash.
Overwriting Thrash instead of using Swipe to reactivate BT charges is a DPS loss. You should be able to get about 4 empowered finishers off before needing to reapply Thrash.
Using more Swipes as opposed to more (unnecessary) Thrashes will result in a higher DPS output.
Use Swipe more. Use Thrash to simply apply an uncapped AoE bleed to empower Swipe.
Same thing for ST. Simply use Thrash once to apply the bleed to buff the Taste for Blood conduit and don’t touch it again until the bleed falls off. Use swipe instead to reactivate BT.
You can be mad all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact I’m right
1 Like
I definitely cringed reading this.
Pretty self explanatory there.
You’re doin it wrong.
Especially with frenzyband requiring cp generators to build up its bleed.
Currently BT has a minimal lead over MoC for M+. Like 200 dps on my sims. With these changes, that is likely going to change in favor of MoC. You’re complicating your life for no reason.
That being said…
Those who are using BT correctly are not having this problem, nor will they after these changes.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R2CkwDdzjtN9XaZ3#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TFR2VvxCyfHr1Q6W#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=279
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I’m curious how you’re hitting 11-12k in keys by not swiping in aoe situations. Wouldn’t mind seeing some logs on that one.
While there’s probably not a lot of data with the buffs yet, currently warcraft logs only has 3 or 4 recorded +15 runs with a feral over 12k.
But in general you can look at different dungeons and different specs and it looks like we would have needed about a 30% across the board buff to put is in A tier damage.
Time will tell though. Need a couple of weeks to see if these buffs actually did anything meaningful for M+.
Feels decent in pvp. I notice more damage without it being over the top. If more buffs come through I’d hope they just only happen in pve and not pvp. Pvp levels felt good today
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Haha, number 40 on that list is me (Angeliqe). You’re looking at gambit on 15 only though, very poor representation of what we can do, and that’s not only this week either (I haven’t done any keys this week for example and when I did that gambit I didn’t even have my 2pc). Is that the only parses with yesterday in them that you could find?
15’s is arbitrary but you need to pick something to keep apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
It’s pretty easy to look at other dungeons and specs to see how they perform in the same apple or same orange.
Like here’s WW for the same dungeon
And cats for a different dungeon
And WW for that dungeon
For the most part you see the same trend in the performance difference between specs no matter which apple or which orange you pick.
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Now that I’m at my computer I can actually look at these properly, and it is fairly discouraging. Very few keys I can see from yesterday and they are even lower than pre-buff. Yeah, fair to say that accomplished a lot.
Meanwhile blizzard be like:
‘omfg monks are lacking in single target, buff the hell out of them!’
'but sir, they are already gods in keys, what about ferals? They are under performing in both keys and raid, they urgently ne…
’ SILENCE, BUFF MONKS’
7 Likes
Do I have to tap the “stop making things up” sign again?
1 Like
Nope.
https://www. warcraftlogs.com/reports/DrMG4hyvaWg1HTmc#fight=4&type=summary
Not when the highest parsing feral in the world is 5k dps behind the other highest hybrid in overall damage my friend.
5 Likes
I am so confused. You linked a log that:
- Doesn’t have Cache.
- Is pre-buff.
I’m not sure what you think you were accomplishing by doing that.
Perhaps this is what you were looking for? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hxCF97ztZvpVba4L#fight=1&type=damage-done
Where we are just fine.
Oh hell no.
Highest ILVL, lowest damage by 2k. Second highest uptime for the dps. Those other two specs are PURPLE, their thermotical cap for more damage is exponential, meanwhile that is the ROOF of the feral dps.
That’s the problem, you can’t just take isolated incidents and use them to buck the trends.
The numerical data puts feral at 15th for ST and 22 for HAC sims. The set bonuses have feral gaing 4% ST, the next lowest dps spec is at 8.9%, most are 10-20%. The glass celling for feral is just unarguably lower right now.
The thing is, it’s not even like all these classes have mass potential they aren’t meeting and feral is at their max so it balances, the logs reflect the reality: Most feral’s struggle very hard to do what others with similar skill levels do. Poor or “okayish” ferals are far behind “okayish” players of other specs. Great ferals are behind other great dps.
The only metric that favors is them is like the log you posted, where your still 2k under, the TOP of your spec, being compared to people who did “good”.
3 Likes