Everyone says they want more abilities but

[Snikrot-silver-hand (Snikrot)]

but why have stealth? you don’t need it if ambush/cheap shot didn’t require it. theys hould just get rid of stealth bro

[Lusent-area-52]

the only spec that needs stealth is sub.sin just needs it for the garrote and cheap shot and outlaw doesnt really use it but for ambush or cheap shot.

other then to vanish and run because rogue are squishy they dont need stealth oh wait thats why they need stealth because they are squishy.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

if blizzard unprunes stuff other abilities will get purned that just tells me the player base isnt happy with class design.

Lol this makes literally zero sense. Blizzard pruned because they felt some buttons were too situational. We didn’t ask for them to prune anything, they just went ahead and did it.

They don’t need to prune stuff when they add stuff. Nobody asked for it and nobody wants it. For years we used to get a new iconic ability for every spec and it felt great. This is their own weird design decision that they’ve admitted was probably a bad idea.

[Snikrot-silver-hand (Snikrot)]

yea so just take it out the game bro, you just use it for moves. lol just macro it bro.it’s one button.

[Lusent-area-52]

get rid of a warriors charge bro they dont need it.

[Snikrot-silver-hand (Snikrot)]

right? it’s just one button bro, we macro it! bro rogue should just be two moves called combo point and combo finisher. That’s all they need bro, you macro it!

[Lusent-area-52]

and warriors should have 2 nittons mortal strike and execute.

[Ravensèyé-tichondrius]

the only spec that needs stealth is sub.sin just needs it for the garrote and cheap shot and outlaw doesnt really use it but for ambush or cheap shot.

other then to vanish and run because rogue are squishy they dont need stealth oh wait thats why they need stealth because they are squishy.

You just revealed yourself to be the most noob rogue in the game.

[Lusent-area-52]

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

#10meme

[Ravensèyé-tichondrius]

Says the groupthink NPC defending bad designs and pruning because its blizzard. o.O

[Snikrot-silver-hand (Snikrot)]

srs bro, I macro it too! bro that’s what swtfy does! bro start a petition for two button rouge and two button warir bro. it’s just two buttons, we macro it!

[Eret-hyjal (Eret)]

I want class fun. Thats all.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Zicam-korgath

My whole point was that there has never been a choice. Optimal cookie cutter builds for every spec have always existed.

There is always a choice you can make. If you have the mindset that you have to follow the most optimal route. Then that’s a choice you made yourself. The thing is, for the majority of players, you can pick w/e you want really as far as talents etc goes.

If you’re not among the absolute top of the top raiding guilds that are playing on a competitive level. If you’re not aiming for the MDI for M+ or top end rated arenas etc.
Then it does not really matter what you pick. You will get by. If people that are on about the same level as you, if they reject you to join their guild/their group or w/e just because you did not pick the meta stuff.
Then, this is simply a perception issue. Not an actual issue with the game.

@Goldenax-whisperwind

I miss screwing around with Eyes of the Beast.

Same! It does sound though like we might see the return of for example Eyes of the Beast. Ion brought it up within an interview a while back where they were discussing things that they could look at bringing into BfA from the creation of Classic.
As he said, they had to re-code/build the ability anyway in order to put it into Classic Wow. This means that it would also work to put into for example BfA.

@Lusent-area-52

the facts are players in any top end content will ALWAYS pick the meta adding more abilities wont matter and could mess up classes even more.

Not only top end. You can see new players that are leveling up that talk about checking 3rd party websites to see what talents etc. are recommended.
It’s a mindset thing. Many nowadays seem to think that, if you want to do anything at all when you play the game, you gotta play in the most optimal way.

@Atalanta-trollbane

You could do those activities, but if we’re going with the clearly most optimal choices, each activity technically had an optimal spec for it. For every class. For every activity.

Ofc they do. There is no such thing as perfect balance. It can never be achieved in this game. In order for that to happen, they have to get rid of pretty much every single thing, every single class has. Then, they have to paste in 1 offensive ability that every single damage dealer has access to. They have to put in 1 healing spell, that all healers can use. And, give every tank the same taunt, the same interrupt, the same…and so on.

You would have to give everyone the same amount of health, the same amount of damage potential/healing potential. All enemies you encounter would have to work the exact same way. And…so on.

This is how you achieve perfect balance.

If this sounds fun, then by all means. But if it does not, then there is no point in thinking that we have to have perfect balance. And if we don’t have that, then there will always be a few choices that you can make no matter what your playstyle is, that will be the best for specific situations.

Again, you don’t have to play the most optimal way unless you play on a competitive level. If you do, then that’s your choice. By default, that choice will always have it’s limitations.

@Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord

Mage and Rogue easily got hit the hardest.

Depends on what you compare it to. If you look at the hunter class with the transition from WoD to Legion, we lost an entire spec. We lost a complete playstyle. And for anyone who might say this, No, the abilities they placed in the MM talents, it feels nothing like the old Survival spec did.
Same goes for the current melee Survival spec, it feels completely different. Has an entirely different playstyle.

@Lusent-area-52

i think everyone wants wod class design back…lol.

Honestly, not really.

I actually think that the classes/specs nowadays with the new design philosophy, that they have potential to become really good.
I’m not saying that they are that good right now, but the foundations they stand on, can be iterated on to become great. They(devs) just have to listen to the respective communities that are tied to each class and see what they actually want.

Now, having said that, I do want a playable version of the old ranged Survival spec back(as a 4th spec option). The spec that focused on DoTs.
But I would actually prefer if it would come in the form of what the other specs went through for Legion.

If you take the Hunter class. The essence of it/it’s core identity have always been fighting with a ranged weapon and being aided by a loyal companion(pet).
They can add in some outliers such as the current Survival that focuses on Melee combat, as well as Marksmanship that does nothing to improve your gameplay with pets.

But apart from those specs, anything else, should still cater to that core fantasy of a hunter who fights with ranged weapons and being aided by a pet.

Ofc we all have our preferences. Our own wants and needs. For me, as far as bringing the playstyle of the ranged Survival spec back. I would imagine it to look something like this: We need range Survival Hunters back - #457 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

Depends on what you compare it to. If you look at the hunter class with the transition from WoD to Legion, we lost an entire spec. We lost a complete playstyle. And for anyone who might say this, No, the abilities they placed in the MM talents, it feels nothing like the old Survival spec did.
Same goes for the current melee Survival spec, it feels completely different. Has an entirely different playstyle.

I was thinking about mentioning hunter, since it had a lot of tools/niche spells as well, honestly.

Current survival could have easily been made a fourth spec, instead of just destroying the ranged version. Stupid how they don’t bother doing that when they have new spec ideas.

[Klowdywilde-area-52 (Klowdywilde)]

players that want to do any end game content will use the same meta abilities they do now look at every m+10 what ever class and spec they are running the same meta every single one of them.

You keep saying that without taking into account the size of that group compared to the entirety of the player base. Yeah, cutting edge players WILL use the same abilities and talents, but there is a reason blizzard keeps normal dungeons, and LFR.

[Jhannae-bronzebeard (Jhannae)]

I dont want Blizz to get rid of abilities becoz it’s not popular.

A Hunter Class is an example of high skill cap class where a very skilled hunter is very different from an inexperienced hunter.

There were lots of stuff a skilled Hunter can do that an inexperienced hunter cant do.

• Kiting melee mobs to cities to let city guards kill the mobs. Becoz this is not popular, Blizz got rid of the original Aspect of the Cheetah that can let Hunter run fast indefinitely until he gets hit

• Scouting areas full of mobs using the Pet. Becoz this is not popular, Blizz got rid of Eye of the Beast where a Hunter could take control his pet and use its eyes.

• Casting Fear spell against Beasts. Hunter is suppose to be master of beasts so they should have “Scare Beast” ability but becoz this is again not popular with noobs, Blizz got rid of it. We Hunters should not be afraid of Druid’s bear or cat form.

• MM Hunter is master of range DPS using his range weapon. He always shoot from a distance. When his target comes near him, he should have a way to go back in range. Becoz Blizz find Scatter Shot and Wing Clip not popular from noobs, they got rid of it. Oh they put Wing Clip on Warmode (PvP). Do they not know that this is also 100% useful on PvE.

I dont care about the noobs who dont use these large pool of abilities. I wantall those abilities back there. I am not gonna use them for DPS rotation… duh? It wont mess my hotbars. Let me… an expert of these stuffs deal with it.

Remember in Legion when certain Hunters lose their trap abilities and later on, they put it back. I know, those freaking noobs never use traps on their whole WoW life. But please dont get rid of our core abilities. Every expansion feels like Hunter is becoming less, less of a Hunter.

[Thellendir-sargeras (Thellendir)]

imagine upvoting a thread that encourages taking complexity, skill, and fun out of the game lol

[Atalanta-trollbane (Atalanta)]

Ofc they do. There is no such thing as perfect balance. It can never be achieved in this game. In order for that to happen, they have to get rid of pretty much every single thing, every single class has. Then, they have to paste in 1 offensive ability that every single damage dealer has access to. They have to put in 1 healing spell, that all healers can use. And, give every tank the same taunt, the same interrupt, the same…and so on.

I’m not sure if you misunderstood, or were just adding to my point. I’m not in favor of removing less optimal choices and declaring that they were illusions.

That’s like shutting down the scenic road because it takes 15 minutes longer and any fun you had was an illusion in the face of a mindless efficiency machine.

[Floyln-tichondrius (Floyln)]

This is why WoW is in it’s current state. GD supporting pruning.

You can stop blaming PvP’ers now.

[Wuzeh-wyrmrest-accord]

I still blame you for the deep freeze nerfs and eventual removal.