Dual spec at phase 2

I don’t think a level 25 caps purpose is for you to fight elites 6 levels higher than you in a level 32+ dungeon bro

That’s something you choose to do on your own accord. It’s not like doing SFK or whatever in pvp spec.

If you are farming that place intentionally knowing it’s not really a normal thing to do that’s on you and you should go respec for it

I don’t see why you think that’s a comparison worth using at all. You don’t honestly think Aggrend and crew meant for people to be farming that place at 25 like it’s a normal occasion for everyone?

You don’t even need to be pve spec to run dungeons our level.

My bro, I main tank BFD as ele spec with enhance tank runes.

This game is not that hard nor that serious

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if it’s not that hard then ill presume you 95+ parse every fight and are 3k+ rated in tbc or wotlk arena.

should be no problem.

people play the game for different reasons, some enjoy the competitive aspect. trying to downplay difficulty or “seriousness” is a cope response. the game is what you make it and dual spec allows for greater participation in optimal fashions.

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This Is a strawman fallacy making it a non argument. We aren’t talking about arenas nor parsing - we were talking about doing content out of “spec”. Or rather, you were

I mean the only person who’s coping, unironically, is you.

Your main stance is you not being able to farm a dungeon that was obviously not a focal point of the level 25 cap. You’re now talking about being 3k rated in an entirely different game because you know my common sense standpoint prevents you from creating an argument that is not a strawman or affirming the consequent.

Go read the rest of my responses on the matter. Realize I do not even care if they put it in the game and I gave my reasons why I don’t care.

I also gave my reasons why it doesn’t fix anything and is just people making a mountain out of a mole hill wether they want to accept it or not. I also provided a few examples of how dual spec can be easily abused and the entire population will also abuse it in this fashion - all it takes is one YouTube content creator to point it out

I have laid out many points earlier

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It should be free. Again there should be zero player friction for people to enjoy the game. And you can see how it works in retail and see there is no issues.

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The only people against DS are bad or toxic players who fear they will no longer be invited to groups.

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Ad hominem fallacy -

Attacking the arguee instead of the subject matter.

There may be people who don’t want DS for diff reasons.

I happen to be neutral non leaning.

I gave you my points. They can add DS or not add it and I don’t really care.

But I am making you aware that it can and will be abused in the exact fashion I have outlined for you.

I also just think it’s something that realy just isn’t all that necessary and it all boils down to a personal preference.

I respec a lot in regular classic servers as a shaman and it never really bothered me at all.

It bothers some people.

Not everyone in wow likes and dislikes the same thing.

I just Happen to think it’s a whatever scenario. They can add it and I’ll abuse the hell out of it for clips tho. Or they can not add it and everyone goes on about their lives. Nobody will unsub if they don’t add it. That’s cap.

It just reminds me of that one guy who made a thread saying it was a waste of time to run across a zone to get to a flight path. Like what?

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As a PvPer I can’t see a real reason why it’s a big to talk to your trainer and hit a button to “Activate Spec Two” for when I go to do BFD once every lockout…

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Now that I could get on board with.

I don’t like the idea of swapping specs on the fly randomly anywhere.

If I could, I could respec from enhance or resto after magic dusting my target to get ele mastery and one shot the guy without “technically” having been ele. Mages can also respec to barrier or fire and just evocative his mana back. Rogues after sap etc

Swapping at a trainer is realistic

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Either this or a long CD on it would work for me.

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Here to support dual spec.

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Frankly you guy’s are delusional liars who don’t even seem to play the game.

You can’t even bounce around any old spec because of gear limitations. You can’t easily go from Healer Druid to feral DPS, but you CAN bounce between Healer and Balance because they both use intellect as a main stat.

I main Paladin and Druid and have always managed to create a build that I feel can be brought into pvp, solo leveling, dungeons, and raids. You guy’s just suck at making builds.

And it’s never been easier in SoD. On my Paladin all I need to do is swap my shield for a two hander, swap my runes, and I go from tank to dps.

People who want duel specing must not play the game or something. OR they suck at building toons.

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YES you should be sub optimal. Isn’t that the WHOLE POINT OF creating a character? That you have different strengths and weaknesses to other characters?

What is the point in making a rogue if you are the exact same as every other rogue because they all just swap builds for the situation? a

I can’t believe RPG players treat this game like a Character Action game instead of like a damn RPG.

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Duel Specing being in the game at all will ruin the game.

As I explained already.

No you explained how it ruins it for you. How does someone else having dual spec ruin your expression of your character?

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I’ll use ff14 as an example because it’s more extreme and obvious.

So you max out your gunslinger and your chatting with a ninja and a lancer and then suddenly those two other guys switch to max level gunslinger, and 4 other jobs they have maxed.

You thought you were carving out a unique experience and identity in this game? nah.

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If they do not do dual spec. I think it would at least be nice for us to just reset our talents via the talents menu instead of going all the way to town to resepec on the fly.

Like I said, I don’t think dual spec would be the end of classic. I just understand why people also don’t want it and how it can negatively affect the game. The problem is for the type of player who mains one spec and role of their class and doesn’t want to swap roles or specs all the time, especially for both their specs to be pve raid specs. With dual spec, they could switch from balance druid to resto druid as an example and are expected to switch and have the gear for that other offspec that the guild wants when dual spec is available. Without that restriction, you are usually expecting to stay one spec for the entire raid. I think the solution of making it so you have to go to your trainer to switch dual spec could work too or at least an inn or a 30 min-1 hr CD

In every game, there is value in placing restrictions and limitations on the players, especially RPGs, ARPGS, etc. One benefit is now loot matters more when it fits your class, spec and playstyle. When you can switch far more easily, every piece of loot is a shiny toy for you to try which makes all loot less shiny. You loot for your class instead of looting for your build, so it just changes that interaction. Good or bad? You can decide.

Another aspect is how your spec matters. Your talent build, playstyle, (and of course gear) is how you differentiate your class from every other player of the same class. If you can freely adjust your spec to whatever activity you’re doing with no friction, then you’re more focused on optimizing a hyper specialized talent build for each activity you do. Your choices within the spec are less meaningful when easily swappable. You can’t choose a well-rounded build, instead of making choices within the build, your activity makes the choice for you. Simply, it adds weight and meaning to your choices. Every RPG draws the line somewhere.

Being a part of classic does not mean it was a good thing is correct. There’s a lot of unfinished content and stuff that isn’t fun especially for everyone, it’s an oldschool mmo. This game isn’t for everyone though. Some people will like it and some people won’t. Being a part of classic though is the entire focus of their decisions in SoD. Does it feel like this belongs in the world of classic? Its been said multiple times by multiple devs. They’re not trying to make retail-, they really want to continue what the classic world had going on. There are 4 interviews from the devs right before SoD launched, one by esfand, countdown to classic, scottejaye, and guzu. Now an additional community council video. Please watch them, hear their questions and you will understand their philosophy behind designing SoD.

Walking or flying to trainers has not been discovered to be bad at all. You just don’t like it, many classic players enjoy that aspect of the game and they want it in SoD. Have you tried hardcore classic WoW btw? The game is far from perfect but the more gradual changes we make the less it becomes classic and just becomes a second version of retail, it’s hard to determine where that line is and not repeating the same mistakes. Why develop two retail versions, especially when the other one has way more resources, effort and content put toward to it becoming a better game. Retail has tons of problems and its not for me, but I could see it being improved if reset to WoW 2 or going back on many decisions. You can see classic impacting some of their big design choices in retail now, not as much the other way around.

I’ll throw you a bone though, some of these flight paths should be sped up, they are way too long for the far ones. If you don’t like traveling in the world, sorry to inform you, but in classic the world is the main character. You’re just a character logging in and existing in it, probably the best mmorpg to be easily transferred to an immersive VRMMO as a virtual world. It doesn’t bend to your will, it has its own logic usually trying to mirror real life, like no fast travel everywhere, weather, night/day, etc. You will run, fly, take a boat or zepplin to wherever you need to go unless the mechanics and systems are presented in a way that makes sense for the world, like warlocks summoning, mage portals, hearthstones. I don’t mind shorter hearthstones. It’ll still feel very classic. If you’re extremely adjusted to retail’s QoL then you have no idea how to understand the tradeoffs that were lost by being given those QoL. Something like flying mounts were awesome at the time, but people realized how it negatively impacted the game later. It was a reflexive design choice that forced them to always give players flying in every new zone. RDF being another one.

Video about some of these choices:
https://youtu.be/WfExwzgT7pc?si=5qYmHnkNHv7wUlMD

Previous discussions of dual spec if you want to see why people agree/disagree:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/please-do-not-add-dual-spec-to-sod/1719718

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/on-the-fly-dual-spec-retail-and-would-destroy-sod/1721145

I don’t understand this type of thinking, a person can have multiple specs in real life. Why do you want your character to just be one thing, like oh no my identity depends on being this one thing. I just don’t get it.

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Man, that hit close to home for you huh lol

Because they are mostly bad players who rely on time being more important then skill. The more they can gate keep the game the better change they can get in groups, or the better chance they can do crappy things and get away with it.