I mean, yes, OP is 100% right. But that’s irrelevant. Modern gamer culture will make it a problem, and you can’t fix that. There will be people who say you “must” use drums, and push that all over the place, just because they can. The people who constantly justify their extreme min-maxing and don’t understand or care the harm it does will make it a game-wide problem, when yes it is a player problem.
That’s why there needs to be a hardline fix at the root, because you can’t trust people to not make it into a problem. We saw this with world buffs, where sure you didn’t NEED them but the constant parroting of meta and focus on parsing as the measure of how “good” you are meant that you felt like you had to do it.
Yes, peer pressure is a problem.
But here is the thing: this is not 40 man raids anymore. It is 25.
Get your friends that do not like to be like this and make your own guild. That is what people do.
Bosses before Sunwell aren’t tuned around having or not drums. Therefore, you can make your guild with the so many members of this community that do not want to use drums as well.
You guys will be quite happy right?
No. You guys don’t want to use drums, but you also don’t want ANYONE ELSE to use drums.
Make your own choices, instead asking someone above you to make choices that you can’t make yourself and affect others.
And yet the hilarious thing is, Sunwell was tested with 25 drummers in mind. No first kills were achieved by anyone not drumming. So they’re doubling down on that, and everything they said about it at Blizzcon was just a bald faced lie.
You don’t need to nerf the Sunwell if drums are nerfed. I completed the raid fairly early (somewhere in top US 50) and we didn’t coordinate any drums. And killed Brutallus week one with very few drums. We didn’t even talk about them in the guild. the LW probably used them, but there were very few LW in the raid.
If your raid lacks dps, farm more gear. The gear from BT/Hyjal is enough to at least get to Muru.
Tbh I think having the 8 yard drum won’t stop it from being mandatory however it won’t be ideal almost ever to stack/spread for each drum proc as people think. With the exception of instant cast or “on the run” DPS moves any movement is an interruption to your DPS rotation and an overall loss for that duration.
5% haste will roughly be a 5% damage increase. So every 30sec you’d need to stop DPSing and run to the “stack spot” to rebuff and then run out again.
Let’s say each time you run in and out you lose 1 spell cast total as you filled the rest of the time with instant casts. So for instance a mage fireball or warlock shadowbolt is a 3 sec cast.
Scenario 1
No stacking for drums and you get 10 fireballs in 30 sec.
Scenario 2
Run to stack for drums every 30 sec giving 100% uptime on 5% haste but 3 sec is spent running and not casting.
With scenario 1 obviously you do 10 casts worth of damage
Scenario 2 the casting time of each fireball is reduced to 2.85sec
27/2.85 = 9.47 fireballs
So if you have to actually run to buff you’d do less damage.
On a fight where you can stack freely 100% it’ll be the best move.
5% Haste (and only 5% while Drum buff is active) will not make or break any TBC raid. Drums are entirely unnecessary. They are in no way comparable to world buffs from Classic.
A Blue post just confirmed that Sunwell was tuned around having drums.
The only problem is that your achievement on Sunwell is 2010-10-25… If you really completed the raid you would’ve your achievement on the patch day of 3.0.1 (WoTLK pre-patch).
But since you’re being dishonest here just for the sake of keeping your point of view, I will just ignore you from now on.
It’s interesting that your “ideas”, or lack thereof, on the original drums forums post were so awful and criticized that you had to create your own post. The community is NOT with you on this one. Blizzard is playing hard to get and backpedaling HARD. Don’t tell us you will change it, then act like this “change” (if you call it that) will be enough.
Not being dishonest. Cleared it on an alliance character and quit the game for a while prior to WotlK and played on horde side. I don’t know why the date is off other than I might not have logged back on a character who had defeated KJ for a couple years. But I can’t prove it so whatever. I know what I did, and I did kill Brutallus week 1 and we had almost no LW in the raid. I assume there were some people who had drums, but the whole raid didn’t and certainly not the casters.
I ended up clearing Sunwell in another guild after they had killed Muru once or twice. We defeated KJ in top US 50 without any coordinated drum use. Probably in June because I remember it was early summer. edit: It was May 2008
And with better players today, better computers and more optimized groups, drums is probably not necessary anymore. I’m very confident the playerbase can clear without drums if they farm enough gear. and M’uru is the only fight where drums might actually matter.
not unless you can convince warcraft logs to make a no drums category, if they don’t or if even a single person pops a drum you will just get a loser parse for your guild and have all the wonderful recruiting problems that come with being a casual dad guild. Have fun with that.
My reply was a bit snippy, mb. It is possible that the caliber of player from then compared to now is completely different. I’m sure a sweaty meta comp guild stacked with warlocks and hunters as well as supporting dps such as spriests etc will blast through the content with little to no reliance on drum stacking.
Drums should be a nice little boost and not a mandatory one. The problem lies with mid to low tier guilds looking, reading and going over logs of the better ones and going “oh drums will make us clear content” and then pushing that idea.
It’s the trickle down effect which isn’t great for the overall health of the game for people who don’t want that sort of peer pressure to perform when it’s not necessary.
World Buffs were OP, but the content didn’t require them, just everyone expected people to have them.
We’ll just have to see what their raid testing brings out.
Sunwell is the last raid of the game, after Black Temple. The hardest raid of TBC.
Until there, it is not needed.
World buffs were more important than Drums in terms of POWER.
You will probably be able to complete Sunwell without them as well.
Also, remember what Blizzard said:
So, they won’t nerf Drums, because that would require re-tuning Sunwell down, and that wouldn’t feel a classic experience in Sunwell.
Therefore, makes no sense, at all, nerf or add a debuff that never existed in first place.
Adding a new recipe for the “better” version of drums down the road will remediate the situation for those people with weak-mind/emotional state that cannot make a decision for themselves and need someone else to take the reins of their lives and decide for them.
That is, if you don’t wanna get LW, then just don’t do it. Do not look for a guild that is asking players to use LW. Make your own guild. Play with your friends.
If you can’t deal with making your own decisions, then don’t bother others with your problems.
go brrrrr
