This makes absolutely no sense and doesn’t resolve the issue where players will feel the need to go leatherworking. Just add the debuff. I don’t understand the logic used to make this decision. Can you please elaborate if there is a good reason?
I think the 2 min debuff would be the easiest thing to do AND it doesn’t feel like “cheating/catering to the player-base” like some other options. The debuff was added later anyway, so there you go!
This is misleading and incorrect.
The debuff was added when Blizzard changed the buff to be raid-wide in WoTLK pre-patch (with WoTLK talents, skills, SWP and all other bosses nerfed and downscaled).
So, no, the debuff wasn’t added until WoTLK.
As long as it is a party-wide buff, it shouldn’t have a debuff and it shouldn’t be changed just because people are weak-minded and can’t say no to something they don’t want to use.
Exactly. The problem is the feeling you have.
It has nothing to do with Drums.
You won’t have a hard time killing a boss because you don’t use drums.
You won’t fail at progressing without drums.
It is not even comparable to World Buffs, where they had more power than the gear you were wearing.
It was added to the files but it wasn’t applied to drums in-game. They simply made the drums not function on level 80 characters.
LMAO Blizzard, WHAT?
We’ve followed this discussion carefully, and we have a couple of thoughts that could stand to be clarified.
Drums of Battle were a meaningful part of the raiding experience in 2008. Sunwell Plateau was tuned with the improved Drums in place, and guilds tested the 2.4 PTR using them, and then all of the first Kil’jaeden kills in 2008 used them. Changes to how Drums work in this later phase of Burning Crusade Classic would make Sunwell Plateau harder or easier than it was in 2008. That would compel us to do raid tuning, which goes against our goal of establishing as much authenticity as possible. Yes, we’re planning on a progressive tuning model for the raids, but we want that to approximate how the original Burning Crusade played out.
The importance of professions in The Burning Crusade is part of the fabric of The Burning Crusade. While today the focus is on Leatherworking, we know that many casters will feel the need to pursue Tailoring, and PvP-focused warriors will feel that Blacksmithing is vital, and so forth. The changes made in the original Patch 2.3 were aimed specifically at bolstering the value of Leatherworking relative to those other professions.
In The Burning Crusade Classic, we want to provide an authentic experience. This means that while we are making some targeted changes where we think they’re appropriate to preserve the spirit and intent of The Burning Crusade’s original game design, we haven’t been planning to cause the value of Leatherworking to go way down over the course of the expansion.
The separation of Drums into two eras of items gives us a basis on which we can make tweaks as we navigate toward release. Players in 2007 felt that the early versions of the Drums were not really worth using. They had a cast time and a very small radius. Our intent in restoring that older version of the Drums for the first three phases of Burning Crusade Classic content is to approximate the evolution of professions through the early patches of original Burning Crusade.
Even though we’re only three days into the beta test, we’re looking forward to raid testing and endgame testing where we try out this pre-2.3 version of Drums. If they end up still feeling mandatory in a way that makes the early phases play out very differently than the original game, we’ll re-evaluate our design.
We’re also tweaking the Sunwell version. For example, the early design of the Drums in the beta today doesn’t include a change that we’ve put in to remove the additional resource costs on the Greater Drums. I think you’ll see that in next week’s new build of the beta.
We’re open to making further alterations, especially where a tweak still isn’t bringing the game to the authentic feel we’re going for. As always, we appreciate your constructive feedback on this issue and everything else.
Thanks for the update, but I and many others are still worried about LW being more mandatory and impossible to drop if it’s a raid drop pattern in ZA. If we go with the early version of drums proposed (tiny range mostly) then LW will be more mandatory to cover more people, and once you get to P4 (which is late TBC) it’ll be even more mandatory for those who get the patterns and impossible to ever drop.
As for the remarks about Blacksmithing, it is mandatory for at least Fury and Enhancement - it’s BiS for both until SWP. Rogues can also benefit from it, of course. So it’s very much so a mandatory profession for melee.
So basically, you’re taking #nochanges even further than you did in Classic.
Thank you for the update. To clarify, when you say guilds used them in testing and clearing sunwell, do you mean 20-25 players were all leatherworking to gain the constant effect of drums each fight? Or that “some” players had them.
Edit: another clarification about proffession “requirements”. You mention the strength of tailoring on casters and blacksmithing on warriors. Those, you must admit, feel very different from a warlock needing to be leatherworking in order to perform their best in raid, yes?
A pretty key thing to focus on is this:
Which seems to imply they think it’s actually an important thing to retain, and want to make sure that it’s followed in TBC Classic - even though I don’t know anyone who argues it’s fun or meaningful. I’d rather they tune SWP with 80 less haste in mind because it’s just… an annoying maintenance buff.
Why are you so desperate to keep #nochanges, people don’t understand what no changes means. You already perpetuated the world buff meta that burned so many people out of classic and now want to continue that.
If we were really no changes then ship the game at patch 2.1 with the terrible karazhan items that are outclassed by the heroic blues, (ex: quagmirran’s eye) and revert all talent changes that happened up until 2.4.3 and make people play with that.
You have a cash cow on your hand that will literally keep activision from breathing down your neck for years but you want to keep pushing people away.
You’re adding paid boosts in the game…
Yeah, they’re going even harder on preserving the “experience” than they did with Classic. Doing this pseudo patch progression, even on awful stuff like Drums
Just to have clarification wasnt it on video record that Blizzard would change drums as to not have them as a meta, by simply splitting them up into lesser and greater the meta hasnt changed drums will still be meta this " Change" is not what was promised at blizzconline. Given the closed betta is now only 4 days old at the time of typing start working on changing this drum meta now before we get into the open beta so as to have a reliable test of them when the open beta starts. Secondly to truely test the reliability of “layering” and sharding and what not give everyone with an active sub the chance to play all at once rather than in waves, if you want to see how well the product is gonna work go straight for the throttle, make the test go under seveir stress as if the game just launched so we dont have that many issues on day one. Id rather have the problems now in testing than on launch day
Great point. I’m not against the boosts, but arguing they’re all for authenticity when they’re trying to preserve an obnoxious meta (similar to batching) while putting boosts in is… questionable.
thats not anywhere near the same thing…the 1 time boost is aimed so people can jump right into TBC since this is TBC CLASSIC and not vanilla classic.
some people just want to complain. the goal of these classic servers are to relive the nostalgia of the earlier expansions, if you dont like the expansion then why play. move on to another game or go play retail.
It is the same thing, If they want to stay true to the original TBC experience, they didn’t hand out boosts back then and they shouldn’t hand them out now.
I’m not affected by the boost, I couldn’t care less if people want to boost 1 time to play with their friends.
They drone on about keeping it how it originally felt but add stuff left and right while touting a high horse. Also the datamined warpstalker mount would like to have a word with you.
okay keeping that logic what level do you play in outland at?
you see where im going here…the point is to be at least 58 so that you can play TBC…
Like I said, I don’t care about the boosts but here is EXACTLY what the blue post said:
“In The Burning Crusade Classic, we want to provide an authentic experience.”
For the sake of AUTHENTICITY (what they are apparently going for) they didn’t hand out boosts back then and for AUTHENTICITY they shouldn’t now to “provide an authentic experience”
What the community is asking is to cut the upcoming Meta no one wants. Even 1% increase will drive people into going LW and drive a new meta.
People simply do not want a Meta anymore.
Just put the sated debuff from the retail from both drum and bloodlust/heroism but seperate bothn buff.
Make those spells raid wide.
This will change the Meta and make less items stacking and class stacking. This doesn’t remove the benefit of having them but just having to have less of the same stuff.
Bloodlust/heroism : The buff is way too powerful and should be a 5 min or 10 min sated debuff.
Drums should be 2 min CD requiring only 1 leatherwoker in the raid.