You can quibble over whether taking illidan’s old life and giving him an entirely new fate and life is brainwashing or not, but i would consider the end result to be identical.
this is a gross misrepresentation of the point given, i would like to believe you knew what i meant by man’ari.
Because he’s not an example of how it works lmao. Light burns undead when used on them directly, period. Even when used to “heal” them, Blizzard’s own words say it’s little more than cauterization, which is burning. And even this was only an explanation given because undead players being killed by their group’s healer would be overly restrictive to gameplay. Light still burns them. They are unnatural abominations of the cycle of life, and the light only sees one path forward. Anything outside of that path such as undead aberrations are to be purged. And after what we see in Revendreth’s Ember Ward, it seems to also not be too fond of death magic in general. They burned to ash there too.
Proximity to the light causes what you described to happen. Priests feel all of that and are extremely rare for that reason. They are not outright damaged by channeling the light into other targets, no matter how badly it hurts.
Disc priests are a relic of gameplay from before shadow magic was made incompatible with the light with the cosmology chart nonsense. Shadow magic didn’t used to be void-associated the way it is now. The chart changed how things work but the game mechanics of spell damage types stayed behind. Same thing is going on with warlocks and shadowflame right now. The kind of shadowflame Fyrakk absorbed is not the same kind of shadowflame warlocks use in their spells.
As the forces have been shown to interact currently, void and light are incompatible.
Frostwolves all turned green despite never drinking the demon blood and never practicing warlock magic. Fel is like radiation and affects them over time. It’s not an immediate change, but it happens. I recall there being a scene described where Durotan(I think it was him) scratched at some dry skin and it flaked away to show green flesh underneath. Grom likely had something similar going on, but hadn’t been around the fel long enough for it to become outwardly visible. A player Mag’har warlock would absolutely have turned green by the time they hit max level, because that would’ve been years of direct fel exposure by that point. I’d even take “partially brown but with cracks and patches showing green underneath,” but pure unblemished brown is an impossibility.
wasnt there a corrupted Drenai in everyones favorite expansion Legion? whats the issue here?
It’s not a relic of gameplay at all. Discipline lorewise is about just that. Discipline. Balance. Pragmatism.
You keep dismissing examples that don’t fit your narrative, and you’re not fooling anyone.
You’re going to have to realise that the cosmology chart doesn’t forbid people from using more than one school of magic at a time, and in conjunction with one-another. It has never been stated that this is the case.
Certain spells doing certain types of damage that don’t match up with current iterations of where these kinds of magic come from is 100% a relic of gameplay that never got updated to reflect it. Shadow priests(and shadow magic in general) didn’t used to be so closely tied to the void. In some cases shadow was synonymous with death magic. Undead used to be animated with shadow magic, would you call Forsaken void beings back then? No, you wouldn’t.
I refer again to the warlock shadowflame issue. It’s not the same kind of shadowflame present in the current patch story. Voidwalkers are still tagged as demons for this same reason when they clearly are not demons. Affliction does mostly shadow damage as well. Why aren’t they dealing with sanity issues the same way shadow priests do? They should be if the spell damage accurately represented where they draw the powers from.
It’s called Equality, Diversive and Inclusive so everyone is the same and no one is special or unique.
Absolutely not.
That’s like saying, “You could worship God and partake in satanic rituals,” for an Earth analogy.
Nope. You can’t.
EDIT: By the way, I am 100% in favor of playable Man’ari Warlocks. Red skin; wings; dracthyr flying “racial.” Yes, please! But… that is NOT a Draenei. It is an Eredar.
You’re conflating gameplay mechanics with lore in a really odd way.
The cosmology chart isn’t a gameplay mechanic, so why are referencing that in one breath, and damage types within gameplay in another? Your argument is all over the joint.
Gameplay > Lore. Function over form. How can anyone possibly care what class/race combo someone is playing. Magic pet mirror on an enchanted broom, ai’li’s skymirror or that prismatic crystal that swaps appearances and boom, a raid full of brooms can take on raid bosses.
Lightforged Draenei can be mages, and they can be priests. Therefore, prior to warlock draenei - the thing you are complaining about - they had access to shadow magic and more. Now that they have returned to Azeroth, and can associate with others (including warlocks) there’s no LORE reason they couldn’t learn to be warlocks.
You absolutely can. The church might be mad at you. Maybe god himself (if he exists) but nothing physically stops you from doing these things.
All Draenei are Eredar. Eredar is the name of the species.
The point was that many gameplay aspects of class and spec design, including the damage types of their spells, were largely not updated to reflect the changes the cosmology chart made to the magic system. Shadow/disc priests have always done shadow damage even before shadow became almost entirely void-associated. After the chart was introduced, the interactions between light and void changed, and has been repeatedly demonstrated in game that the two are incompatible, Alleria’s mishap being the most prominent and very recent.
Shadow priest was changed into this weird void cultist, which would fine as a spec on its own, but because disc is the midpoint between Shadow and Holy, it makes disc a relic of old lore that never got updated properly to reflect the fact that the two are incompatible. Priest in general is just an absolute mess in the lore, probably more than any other class in the game. It’s been used to cover the different belief systems of every single race in the game, had any of the original racial flavor spells removed for being a balancing nightmare, and now has to juggle this weird spectrum of light and void which they’ve shown are incompatible.
That’s why I brought up warlocks as another example. Affliction does shadow damage, which would make them a void spec. But they clearly aren’t void themed because they don’t have sanity issues, so the damage type is clearly wrong. It would probably be more appropriate if it was decay damage. Warlocks have some necromantic ties and decay is mostly associated with Death. I believe Drain Life is primarily necromantic in nature and it’s one of their most iconic spells, so decay wouldn’t be out of place on them.
And it’s not my fault your two brain cells aren’t enough to read this. It’s pretty straightforward. If you weren’t gonna bother to read anything then you shouldn’t have jumped in to begin with.
The reason why the Draenei used to not be warlocks was because of the whole Burning Legion thing…
But now they see that using “Warlock” magic can be just as evil and just as good as “nature magic” as we can see by stuff like The Emerald Nightmare.
No more are they bound by the traditions of the past. People can, have, and will continue to evolve and become stronger and better. Part of that is learning to use the tools available to you. Accepting that your people are now ready for a new form of power. Small-minded people like you hold back progress for the sake of “mah lore” when the lore its self says that the only reason they don’t use Warlock magic, is by choice. There is no “lore” reason why they CAN’T be Warlocks, but that they WON’T be warlocks.
Same with the Lightforged. Besides, if the Na’aru can start to “Purify” Illidan, bestowing HIM with Holy/Light energies? ILLIDAN, OUR BEEFY BOI ILLIDANK WAS ALMOST PURIFIED…you think a puny basic demon that any fledgling warlock can summon would be immune to purification?
You think the Lighforged are weak and can’t tame some basic level demons? BRO THEY BEAT ON DEMONS FOR FUN, I DARE A DEMON TO SAY SOMETHING! CATCH THIS LIGHT!!!
Get over yourself and the lore you clearly don’t know anything about.
Draenei can be warlocks, they choose not to.
Lightforged Draenei are basically just extremists who, also, chose to just not use the power. They can, they make a conscious choice out of fear.
DO YOU WANT THE DRAENEI TO RISE ABOVE THE CHAINS OF FEAR, OR BE BOUND BY THEM LIKE SARGERAS?
Times change, old man.
Couldn’t resist this.
You’re arguing past me, which is a shame. You fail to address the points raised previously, in favour of your own non-sequitur, which is poor practice.
i’m sure you can reference previous comments. postulating that there is no mechanical restriction and leaving the cultural issue unaddressed is like saying there’s no lore reason why Garrosh couldn’t be a warlock. he’s just an orc, after all.
I see an opportunity; a wasted one at that. Is it telling, that you come to the same possible conclusion that the people you’re opposing have already suggested?
And, to be honest…
No i want the lightforged to fall. i want them to intertwine the threads from the mag’har questline, the x’era cinematic, the alleria book, the Iridikon bargain. I want to see the lightforged crack, become a twisted parody of themselves, like the iron horde under garrosh.
Engagement comes from conflict, and i want to see this one.
For once, the alliance can play the bad guys, no?
There is no reason Garrosh couldn’t be a warlock. But he wasn’t. He’s a premade character and his arc is over.
You can’t compare the PC’s ability to make choices to a fully custom written npc.
And so we aren’t comparing those two.
The concern is not whether the player characters can pull it off, as i have more faith in you than i do in the PTR, but whether the warlock NPC’s and the ramifications they represent will be written with as much finesse as a player character can.
Summarise the point you’re trying to make, nobody is going to read this abomination.
Blizzard writes the lore and they said they can exist. And Sir Z isn’t the only example, the EPL has a bunch of undead paladins running around. They were raised by Balnazzar.
There seems to be two paths to Light-wielding undead.
1.) They were raised by a powerful necromancer. Arthas, Kel’Thuzad, Balnazzar are three of the most powerful necromancers (or individuals with necrotic power) we encountered in the game so far. They were strong enough to raise paladins with all their power intact.
2.) Calia. Blizzard wrote new lore just for her but now it makes you wonder if it really was just for her. She was raised by Anduin, Velen and a wind chime (or some combination like that, I don’t remember or care) and when she went to go visit the necromancers in Maldaxxus, one of them told her when she brought up her weird resurrection that “necromancy is necromancy.” So apparently the Light can be a substitute for necromancy.
So will the Horde pull together three powerful priests to create undead paladins? Maybe. The entire reason the Forsaken is with the Horde is the kindness of taurens. They wanted to help the Forsaken get “cured.” Maybe Blizzard will have Seers from Thunder Bluff create paladins? That’s speculation on my part but it would make sense.
The point is, and you should know this, Blizzard will change, ignore, create or destroy lore to fit their current narrative, not the player so I don’t know why we’re accusing each other of doing this.
You know, the alignment chart that spawned off this amuses me to this day.
https://i.redd.it/1dgqwfsyz0491.png
Just to help out
