Unless they were assisted heavily by other forces, I don’t see what the AU draenei would even be able to do, they couldn’t even fight the Iron Horde and we basically just had a small assault team that took out the Iron Horde for them. It would be a very weak expansion.
I don’t think you need to make the Mag’har “bad.” I think you could have Yrel preparing her forces for a threat that will require the Mag’har to be a part of her forces, whether they want to be or not. It’s not pretty, but at the end of the day, she’s doing it because she believes it will save them as much as the Draenei. Maybe show some moralizing on her part to justify her actions, to show that she doesn’t really want to take these extreme actions, but that she’s adopting more of a “big picture” mentality. Have her taking the fight to an enemy that will exploit any disunity in her forces, to show why she chose to attack the Mag’har. Basically, neither Yrel nor the Mag’har are evil, but they’re thrown into a terrible situation where every side tries to find the least awful solution.
But this is WoW. So I’m sure there’ll be some cosmic evil thingamajig pulling the strings, or some sort of corruption that we’ll inevitably have to purge.
/sigh
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And what is this global threat that requires a solid monolith to fight? Although, this is the wrong question, I’ll try it differently. Why would the Mag’har not want to be part of Yrel’s forces if there was some kind of global threat? Did the Mag’har themselves want to take the lead? Or does Yrel think that only the technologies of the draenei will save Draenor, the mag’har believe in the elements, axes and refuse to pilot the golems that the draenei build from the souls (don’t the draenei golems work on the souls?) of the orcs?
It’s the latter.
The Mag’har and Draenei worked together to drive the Legion off Draenor. Then the “Lightmother” arrived and convinced Yrel that the only way to save Draenor was to convert everyone to their particular brand of the Light. Some Mag’har joined for various reasons, but many did not, and so the Lightborn decided that those Mag’har that wouldn’t join willingly would either be forcibly converted or wiped out.
On the flip side, most Mag’har don’t want to join the Lightbound because they aren’t convinced that they’re the reason why Draenor is dying. Or that the Lightbound are saving it. Also, they don’t think hey should have to give up being Mag’har and convert to the Lightbound’s ways to do it. And especially important is the fact that they don’t like being killed/forcibly converted because of it.
I think the Lightmother’s (aka Xe’ra) ultimate goal is making sure the Light-particularly her brand of it-is the preeminent cosmic force in the universe. The Fel, Void, and Death/Undeath are easy enough to rally people against, but in the absence of such forces, she’ll turn on the elements and anything else “not-Light” as she deems it. And she doesn’t quite care if anyone consents or not because she thinks as long as she’s right, she should be able to do whatever she wants to achieve those goals.
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There is a thing that makes me confused about it all. Maybe somebody would share their thoughts too.
So, we have Xe’ra. One of things that we know about her is the “special” connection to the players:
In the House of Light and Shadow
Xe’ra says: The pain will subside, champion. You now carry my mark, and through it I am able to see and feel as you do. Return to me when you are able. We have much to do.
So, what would that mean? She should become the naaru that understands us more than anybody, I think. But not sure how could it affect the situation. Would she hesitate? Be more emotional? Form stronger bonds with somebody? Be upset? Happy? Feel something else?
Grand Proctor Beryllia seemed a bit surprised when she learned that Z’rali can feel pain. Not sure what to make out of this story arc (well, probably nothing in the actual story, but at least peculiar topic to discuss).
gl hf
Xe’ra seeing/feeling as we did seemed more like a useful tool that enabled us to more effectively act where she could not as opposed to an attempt to connect with and empathize with us.
This mental connection isn’t unique to the player either.
She could also see through Alleria’s eyes, sense her emotions, show her visions, share emotions with her, etc. And she was plenty capable of imprisoning her for disobeying her orders.
And I’m fairly sure she had a similar connection with Turalyon, as she was able to grant him visions, look into his mind/soul, and when she was slain by Illidan, we got a close up on Turalyon’s face that showed the golden glow fade from his eyes. And it didn’t keep her from keeping secrets from him.
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Bad? Upon reflection, not entirely. We’ve got Draka, and the Draenei do have legitimate grievances against the Orcs regarding the Iron Horde (no matter how much Blizzard tries to sweep that under the rug).
Given how popular “extreme order is as bad as extreme chaos” and “dogatism is bad” stories currently are, an “the extremist was right” story where Yrel’s holy war is justified would be subverting expectations.
The idea that the imperium is “the heroes” and not one of the main cause of the setting’s problems is a massive misread that only gets peddled by Imp fans. The original setting blurb even told you up front that the empire as it is actually pleases “the gods”
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Speaking as a 40k player who’s not an Imp fan, my view ranges from “it’s a testament to how messed up the setting is that the Imperium is what’s needed for humanity” to “they’re usually the lesser of two evils”.
Imo the Eldar - specifically some of the Craftworlders and the Harlequins - and the Tau are closer to good guys than the Imperium, who are merely the setting’s main protagonists.
On the subject of Yrel, that BfA scenario is not the last we’ve seen of her (though WoD might be the last we see of her as a hero).
I would bet money on it happening. They put that stuff in the story for a reason, and it seems pretty clear that reason is so it can affect the main universe in a future expansion.
Unless they change their minds and scrap the plans in favor of something else, that is.
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I’m curious as to how it will play out if Blizzard decides to make all six of the force-planes (there needs to be a name for these…) act like the Nether and Shadowlands, so that the Xe’ra commanding Yrel is the same one we met, and she just respawned in the Lightlands after Argus.
I really doubt we’ll get all 6.
Any plane will probably need to be a full on expansion to do the areas any justice, and 5 expansions is a long time. (as we are already in the plane of death)
If there’s one thing I can guarantee, it’s that Blizzard always crams more “expected” plotlines into each expansion than we expect. Or, alternatively: we often expect each expected plotline to be stretched out way more than it needs to. For example,
- The community expected the Elemental Planes would get their own expansion back in the Vanilla/TBC days, but we got a Caverns of Time/Deathwing/Elemental Planes/dragonflights one—each one of which we thought might get their own expansions.
- We all thought the Emerald Dream corruption plot would get its own expansion, but that plot was wrapped up in Legion. An expansion, mind you, that ended up finishing the Burning Legion plot way sooner than anyone expected, as most assumed the the story could never accelerate fast enough to get to Sargeras in time for one expansion.
- BfA started as a faction-oriented expansion, but it finished the largest number of community-expected expansions of them all! The hypothetical N’zoth expansion, the “Lordaeron invasion” expansion, as well as the multiple expansions that were assumed to be necessary to visit the South Seas, Nazjatar, and Zandalar.
The list goes on. Anyone like myself who’s been in the community since 2005 knows that the players always expect certain singular plots to get entire expansions devoted to them, like the “absolutely guaranteed South Seas expansion,” and Blizzard always stuffs way more into them than we expect.
This is actually a pattern I noticed long ago, and it’s been on my mind for years, so you unfortunately get an undeserved rant thrown at you (sorry). So I say this: bookmark this page if you want, but I promise, PROMISE, everybody here that each remaining plane will not get a full expansion. I wouldn’t even be surprised if all 4 are put into the next one.
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While I get the idea of what you’re saying, I can’t quite agree with the form: the players often expect plotlines to occupy as much time and scope as necessary to actually explore the theme and have a meaningful story including a finale of some sort.
The time and other resources that the devs are putting into them is frequently too small to get satisfying experiences. To mention a “neutral”-ish story that suffered a lot, I’d pick the Nightwatch one from Legion. Like, it happened, ruined a liked since classic location, the end.
The way the current story-telling style feels can be easily seen with Baine. Do people enjoy how his storye progressed throughout the 9.0? Well, based on the comments I encountered in the last 8 or so months, that’s the norm of how such approach makes the audience feel, when things are used in the story or places on hiatus because of the dev whim, or when the characters that seemingly should be present somewhere, are not, etc.
I would not call such approach good or enjoyable. The only one time when it sort-of worked (but not really) was Legion when the tempo of content release was abnormally fast. And I doubt that the dev team can consistently sustain such development speed with at least comparable quality of execution, so that the players would consider that there is are more positives than negatives.
gl hf
I still just can’t see how it could be done. You’d have light worshipers; humans, dwarves, gnomes, AND the tauren, blood elves and even some of the undead on Yrel’s side. With all the other religions like Night Elves with the Elune and Orcs with nature and such on the other against her. You can’t just have 1/2 of each faction when Blizzard refuses to ever change the dynamics of the Horde and the Alliance.
Not necessarily. The Light can ultimately be a benevolent force that can be used for good, like the vast majority of Light users show. But it can also have another side, where it’s benevolence turns ugly, and takes away freedom in order to remove the possibility of suffering. These two aprts of the Light do not have to agree with eachother, and can instead be opposed to eachother, like what would likely happen in a Light based expansion
Pretty much.
“Evil can be wielded for good and Good can succumb to evil”, “We need to recruit members of X to fight the forces of X”, and “Enemies today can become allies tomorrow” are are all recurring themes in WoW.
From the outset, WoW has had Warlocks, who were part of the greater battle against other threats, including the Legion.
In WotLK, when the central antagonist was an army of undead lead by the Lich King, they introduced a class that was made up exclusively of the Lich King’s most elite champions.
In Cataclysm, when Deathwing rose up and all the elemental lords were running amok, we allied with Dragonflights and Shamans to stop them.
When we fought the Burning Legion in Legion, they introduced a class made up exclusively of Fel users who followed Illidan- who himself was previously an antagonist. The expansion also introduced the concept of the Locus Walker, a champion of the Void who used it to fight the Legion, and the Void Elves.
And here we are in Shadowlands, fighting a god of death who wants death to reign supreme and we’re doing so by allying ourselves with all the other forces of death.
To say nothing of the multiple times when an out of control (iron)Horde required the assistance of the Horde to stop it.
The idea of a story wherein an army of Lightwielders poses a threat to Azeroth and has to be defeated by a coalition of forces that also includes Lightwielders is in no way out of the norm for the franchise.
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They could have if Activision wasn’t extremely parsimonious about actually staffing Blizzard while also spreading their devs thin on a bunch of different projects.
Anything could be, however, I’ve never seen much confirmation about anything like that. I saw a few interviews with people who quit the company at different times, like G. Street, or C. Kaleiki, and nobody could point out a single instance where a crucial decision was made under pressure of activision. It does not mean there isn’t anything like that, but the core problems might also be blizz problems.
For example, positive and negative effects of “every voice matters”
Or that blizz devs viewed and maybe still view themselves as “rock stars”
I do not know the sources of the claim, but supposedly the devs consider WoW so far ahead of the other MMOs that there are no rivals / no ideas worth considering (till ~20:00):
edit:
IMO the key problem is that the game is successful largely because of the communities and the nostalgia factor of the IP. But the devs probably think that it’s because they do an amazing job in step by step replacing the original ideas of the game.
gl hf
To put it in real world terms Yrel’s coming isn’t the same as the Pope saying to crusade the holy land, where catholics and eastern orthodox and such can disagree with him over morality and scripture, this is divine authority coming in saying to do it. The equivilent of Joan of Arc decending from heaven flanked by angels, at that point there is no uncertanty it’s simply time to take up the sword and do what your told. Your not choosing some supposed moral mortal high ground over being doomed from your religions afterlife.