Not even that so much. Just the general reality that stuff everyone can have is usually considered less value than more rare items.
No.
They tried this in Shadowlands Season 1 and it went so poorly that they had to emergency buff loot drops back to where they’re at now.
It has to be hard and challenging to get the best gear. Imagine if you just received BiS for every slot in the mail at the start of every xpac. Might as well just mail us the best pets, toys and mounts too.
This gives me an idea for a new MMORPG called YOU WIN.
I think the game would be better had they just not had myth track at all. Just tack on another 4 levels to hero track, let mythic raid and mplus vault drop items with more levels filled in to save on gilded. Problem solved.
Nothing feels as bad as getting cheated by the vault every single week, and having zero ability to hit max gear without engaging in mythic raiding.
Except gearing mostly boils down to RNG, especially for big ticket items. Where’s the challenge in hoping the random number gives you sacbrood in your vault, and not yet another trash trinket that exists solely to inflate the table?
So what is meaningful? Brain-dead AoE fests?
The real reason why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
For me as a pvper gear doesn’t matter it’s just a means to an end. I need the Conquest gear to play at a leveled playing field but i don’t really care about getting the gear or feel good when i do get it i just need it. If they did away with gear in pvp i wouldn’t even care, it’s just another pointless step that stops me from play all of my alts because i don’t want to bother gearing them up for pvp.
But i know 90% of pve progression is tied to gear so i feel bad for you guys.
Scarcity can make loot meaningful. It’s not the only avenue for it, though.
Yes and no. Yes in the sense of how… If everyone was a millionaire, then being a millionaire means nothing. You have the same purchasing power as everyone else…
No in the sense that technically someone else having the same power gear from objectively easier content…doesn’t actually affect you.
The issue is that the second sentiment relies entirely on the player’s personal feelings of success.
For some people being successful is achieving that which most have not achieved, and having a symbol for that success.
For me, I know that KSM doesn’t mean much. Many people have it. But I feel it is an achievement for me nonetheless. Others won’t share that opinion and I have to be okay with that.
Meaning is determined by the player.
For me, achieving max hero track gear is meaningful, despite knowing there’s a mythic track I’ve yet to see.
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There are many reasons why this is a thing and the only way for it to become that way would be to split it from raiding. As you still want incentives to do the raid as you want people to do both raid and M+ for faster gearing when you can already get a full myth track set from your m+ vault + crafting in a season. And you still want gear progression in raids so to make it so better guilds clear first and that they don’t have to nerf too much bosses.
Heroic gear is already mostly irrelevant since M+ has been added and personally I think it would be a pretty bad decision to add more to M+. The only thing you’d end up with by saying that the harder difficulties should get rewarded more is them scaling up the rewards higher like this season. To some point it would be much better if M+ players didn’t need myth track gear by scaling players down to heroic in M+.
Or just buff the anemic drop rates of raiding, making raiding spamable would be a mistake and turn it into another grind. Might as well remove gear if gear can only be a grind not a progression.
you’re joking, but you’re actually describing the ideal game for many people here
Imho, there should be two item level tiers. One from queued content and one from premade content. Champion and hero respectively.
Narrow the power band per tier, helps with the math.
Keys had it right. The rewards top out at a pretty attainable level, and everything competitive rise above that for the clout. Trying to make it harder to get loot from keys has severely impacted the morale around the game, perhaps irrevocably.
Do we as in the mythic raid community want that…?
Its almost unheard of now for guilds to not extend lock outs for months. This comes across as an old almost abandoned mindset. The man who is looking for vhs tapes in the modern age.
Your thread reminds me of an old thread I started years ago on a very similar topic.
The TLDR of it was that if everyone has something, does nobody ultimately want it? The discussion was around rarity of mounts but extended to rare mogs, FOMO items and the discourse that participation trophies should / shouldn’t be handed out.
I can see both sides of the argument…put the best gear in the most trivial form of content, elitists will be upset and Blizzard will lose subscription revenue as people will quit once there is no more gear to chase. Put the best gear behind the most difficult content and casuals will be upset and they make up a large proportion of the general populace so Blizzard and the suits should really listen to their feedback.
I do think this is an impossible thing to solve. And, this is why I’ve been strongly supporting adding gear into the in-game store. Casuals will have access to it. Blizzard may actually gain revenue, depending on how they implement it. Elitists will still be mad because their pixels / ilvl will be invalidated but I’m sure they will find other avenues to stroke their e-peen, be it through IO or exclusive mogs / achievements.
It still very much apply today, early guilds still kill bosses with less ilvl.
When you extend it’s because you hit a point where you don’t need the gear and generally on last bosses as those take a lot of time.
Extending is more a problem because of M+ vault and crafting, as you’ll be able to not have to clear the raid to get good gear. What we got right now is a compromise, it doesn’t mean I’m fully happy with it. M+ and raids live in the same ecosystem, so the game is designed in mind that you do both which leads to this.
Mythic raids are the most toxically competitive game mode. You know going into every season that blizzard is going to manipulate difficulty to make sure ~1500 guilds get CE. They’ve gotten really good at this. But if you’re not in a top 200-300 guild, it’s a crapshoot every season of whether the nerfs are going to come before your guild morale fails.
I was in a US 800 guild. We got to smolderon too fast, and the we replaced 40% of our roster while we “progged” the fight until they nerfed it. Then we got to Tindral, the Guild Killer. Never recovered. Obliterated. And call it what you want, but I don’t think the game should be that hard. Even games that are designed to be hard (like Souls) don’t take weeks to do a boss. The current state of mythic raid is just to stroke these organizations’ egos.
I imagine it might. I don’t know, I don’t have any long term reward system in my brain so when I finally get a piece of gear that I’ve been needing I just think “finally” and move on to the next thing.
I feel like the pacing is pretty good right now. It’s super easy to get huge amounts of champion gear from delves and then jump into low M+ keys for rating.
Does Scarcity make loot “Meaningful”?
Sorta? Like, nothing from the trading post will ever be cool. Because everyone has it. Suddenly half of orgrimmar is wearing the same murloc pajamas. So cool!
No… usually they kill it with more ( depends how early you mean early by, but split runners usually outgear for the first month).
This is more a old outdated take on progression. One that hasn’t applied for years. Now its pretty steady progression then you hit some broken weak aura boss that hard blocks guilds until its mechanic is gutted then progression proceeds as normal.
Hell when was the last boss of the instance the hardest even…? The first tier of sl?