Dev/Frost Damage

PVP Arenas
41

In the gutter is a subjective opinion. Do you understand that?

What you think it is and what I think it is are entirely different. What I see, from my actual experience, is a spec that is very much lagging behind in development. When the CC nerfs happened, hunter’s were hit the hardest. We lost 2s off our main CC chain even after accounting for the reduced CC being removed. Then… they ‘buffed’ healer trinkets and now our window to get kills is even shorter. Do you get that? Do you get that was a really big nerf? When I might have been landing a kill at 2 minutes, the healer is already back in the game.

As I said earlier, at the start of the expansion the 3 specs were very much on par in rep. Since though, SV has steadily lost players overall. Either to the other 2 specs or just quitting entirely.

SV doesn’t excel at any one thing. It does a bunch of things decently well, but there are lots of specs now that also do those things… and they do it better. Better control. Better damage. Better mobility. Better defensives. All that. The 4 set we got forces us into melee more often and the damage is extremely global heavy.

chakrams > explosive > fury > bomb > bomb > bomb > flanking > and then kill command and mongoose spam. It’s some of the most telegraphed damage in the game. Unlike a ton of specs now, we don’t have access to any big hitting abilities outside of explosive crits. The sustained is good, but tons of specs have spot healing they can do to negate our goes.

Ignoring all of that though, mobility in the game has changed. With arms picking up Blademasters Torment this season, it’s extremely tough to kite them or peel them. Then you have extremely high mobility specs like DH or specs like UHDK and I simply can’t get breathing room, so I flop. I don’t think you get how lopsided these matches are.

So yea, the spec is in the gutter. It doesn’t need damage buffs, have said that many times. But it does need more effective tools or better ways to live.

Edit: Just want to say this again… In the last few tournaments, we have watched hunter’s dying in turtle, just as they use turtle, or dying with turtle available but no trinket. RoS hasn’t been good since the crit changes in PVP and lots of spells continue to crit regardless. SOTF does nothing when half the offensive CDs in the game last twice as long and at 40%, quite a few specs will just kill you through it.

1 Like
42

Are you stuck in a time loop that keeps you in season 1? The Dev playstyle hasn’t been to try and one-shot for ages now.

Rofl. Alright, but I haven’t actually hidden any of the information there. I’ve represented it as precisely as possible at all times.

I believe that is what’s referred to as a joke. The point is I was posting from a retail character that (I thought) you still wouldn’t be able to dox me from. I chose my hunter because it seemed appropriate, given we were discussing hunters.

Never even one time. I don’t misrepresent, misconstrue, or lie, and I admit when I’ve been in error. I am absurdly consistent in this regard. You are free to show me any instance where I’ve failed to do so and I will happily correct it.

You realize that new accounts exist, right? I haven’t had access to my Vanilla account, sadly, for a very long time now. Miss the panda pet.

43

Yeah, it is, and even outside of the ‘one shot’ kill burst it’s very simplistic and impossible to really control because of slow/snare/CC immunity and basically inability to be kicked. It’s actually more laughable than DH how simplistic it is. I would consider it the caster equivalent of DH and I could never respect someone that mains either, it’s just free. It even has Animation immunity that makes them unable to be hit which is absolutely busted just like DH.

Not particularly, your voker has no posts and you can’t look at classic chars (Which is the ONLY reason people post from them.)

That is one there already.

Then again, I will go off your experience as Combatant.

Further, Adroi was the one to link data. You have not.

44

I don’t need to post directly from a character to accurately relay any relevant information about them to provide context for my posts. I’ve never claimed different experience or rating than was true at the time of whatever post I made.

I’ve already explained why I post from mine. It was already my posting character when I started retail back up. I had no idea that a Classic posting character hid anything, nor was I aware of the existence of websites like check. Learning that was the case was definitely a bonus, of course, because behavior like yours is monstrously cringy.

Imagine how easy it must be to cite an instance of me doing it if I’m doing it so often. And it would be so embarrassing for me, too, given I’m directly and repeatedly calling you out on it. How can you possibly resist finding one of these readily-available instances of me lying?

Again though, I’ve never not been open about being a Devastation main.

I’ve cited my source. Do you need it in coloring book form?

45

Do if you want to specifically talk about a spec like how SV is fine and try to counter someone pointing the issues of the spec out.

That’s too bad.

Well you have for quite some time and continued.

Okay, those a couple of your posts that both convey it.

:3

My source proves otherwise

Basically you tried to quote stats about specs which, your stats say survival is actually better than BM. But rankings don’t show that, because the top ranked SV players are much lower than BM. Because you forgot to take into account what rating those wins/losses occur at.

46

This doesn’t answer the question of why you consider your personal experience to be more real or relevant than actual data.

Your post gets into the weeds of how you feel Survival is worse now than it was, and that may even be the case; I don’t know because I don’t have a record of the equivalent data from previous seasons. But if Survival was better, and then it was nerfed both directly and indirectly, but that only resulted in a statline that is hovering around balanced, doesn’t that indicate that the spec was overpowered previously?

How is it possible that the spec is outright suffering now, but that suffering isn’t reflected in its metrics? It is performing a bit under what I would expect from a spec with a lower playerbase, but not by that much. Very minorly. Is what you mean by “in the gutter” that it is minorly underperforming?

47

Why wouldn’t I? It’s a bonus that my Classic character interrupts the childish behavior common here.

My dude you just linked blatant satire as proof of me lying. You… realize there’s a difference, right?

The average winrate is better. My assessment of the overall statistics was:

48

Not a dude, so there’s another lie too. Satire or not, a lie is a lie. I gave another later.

The stats you gave already commented that SV is better, it has higher win rate right? You used that as a zinger but now you’re trying to discredit it.

49

Yo, this exchange is so great. Either you are trolling me or you’re just really… special. Whatever it is I’ve turned the corner from being annoyed to loving it.

50

This thread has nothing to do with devo/frost mage after the first 3 replies. This is amazing.

51

Thanks for proving that you’re not here for any decent reason, just for messing with people and posting incorrect stats from a classic alt.

I’ll give you a last tip, overall population is a good starting point but actually checking the ladder for the top rating and how many above certain thresholds is also great, just gotta sit there and manually throw out all the ones that are all the same people on alts because for some reason Blizz doesn’t action people smurfing and doubling, tripling, up to 50x down on a spec on the ladder.

Devo is an absolutely busted one shot machine from basically unkickable spells, that’s it. You came in here to defend your main spec hardcore despite how broken it is.

Now I will do what I said I would, and hide the low level posters + classic posters.

52

Mate, you posted literal and obvious satire as proof of me lying.

Only when compared to the spec’s overall playerbase. More popular specs will and should have more players above any given rating threshold.

Literally not an accurate statement. Devastation is a pressure-cleave spec currently, and has been for a while now.

Why is keeping reality ordered neatly in their head so problematic for so many? I didn’t mention or reference Devastation until you brought it up. I know my very presence carries with it big Devastation energy, but I didn’t actually talk about it, let alone defend it, until you started saying silly things.

You can hide us, but Coke will never taste as good as Coca-Cola Classic.

53

Welcome to Adroi (and many posters here).

Any time they’re losing an argument or just disagree with you, and you’re on a classic character, they’ll start accusing you of trolling even if you’ve been eminently reasonable and they’re the one petulantly resorting to ad hominem.

Some people are just unable to handle the inability to quickly check someone’s armory and then find some arbitrary reason to invalidate or demean their experience. Too cerebrally taxing to just have a constructive discussion, I guess.

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54

The last time you cited sources you tried to say certain classes need nerfs solely based on representation and a census that was many years old and outdated. So excuse me when I call your sources, or your interpretation of such, complete garbage.

55

This isn’t even slightly true. I have a very short list of people I have put on ignore and a just as short list of people I consider trolls. It’s not about losing an argument, especially considering we are arguing my opinion.

You’re welcome to not like what I post or hate my opinions, but at least get this right.

It’s not that.

There are lots of people who post here only to troll. Trying to have a constructive conversation starts with at least knowing where the other poster is coming from. Is it a good faith discussion? Is it worth having some dialog? Or are they just arguing to argue?

We don’t have much to go off of beyond their experience. I don’t rating shame people, but if a player isn’t even actively playing, like most people, I’m probably going to dismiss their opinion. That’s all we have to go off.

I’m not going to argue with you over my opinion. We are looking at the same numbers and clearly seeing two different things. The FACT is SV participation has fallen off significantly. Why you can’t accept that is beyond me.

It is though. Only the very best players are making anything happen. The same is true for FDK, Enhance, etc. By your logic, every spec is fine. Despite the fact there is VERY CLEARLY a disparity in the quality of play from the top specs to the bottom specs, you’re saying it’s all fine.

Great. Good discussion.

56

skill issue then
:dracthyr_comfy_sip:

57

Why are you so angsty bro

I usually look forward to your posts but the energy you’re giving here aint it

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58

Yeah ive got some weird achievments that dont match when i played some of my characters. Something borked on blizzards side i think.

59

These are true for Kingsbane and Death mark yet both are nerfed in pvp so I don’t see why mages should get a pass here.

There is a point where this really isn’t true, if you can reliably kill someone in a few globals then even poorly designed things can be S tier. Season one Devoker pre nerf comes to mind.

Better solution than just hitting the gas on damage and hoping everything works out.

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60

I don’t think you can dispel kingsbane anymore can you? Pretty sure last time I was mucking around with 2s this week both my healer and I tried dispelling/dwarfing off kingsbane and it most certainly did not go anywhere.

Anyway names are blurred out so I can’t check that dragon specifically, but most dragons run with just a baseline of crit of 5% or w/e so some of those screenshots just look like dragon boy won the lottery.

IDK how you change dev vokers though because they have to do a lot of damage, because they have nothing else going for em atm.

1 Like