We can’t have too many customization options because that would be too yoke. (At least according to some real intellectuals here)
“I’m all for customization options, BUT” -is a red flag.
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I know, right? I want my Tauren visage for my Drakthyr NOW! Ebonhorn has one, why don’t I? Why do I have to be a human or a skinny human looking elf
Edi - all in gnomes like Chromie too!
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Tauren visage would be epic.
But obviously Blizzard is an indie company. I’ll take whatever I can get
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I will say I was EXTREMELY happy Baine and Mayla got some screen time and Baine wasn’t needing to be saved or running away
The thing I am salty about is Wrathion joining the Alliance.
I really grew attached to the character in bfa when he helped us fight N’zoth. But I guess the horde just isn’t ready to embrace so much hotness in one day. alas
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They should have just added the class for all races so the race you select is your visage.
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My point of comparison is with things like ESO and FF14 where diverse human cultures are given entire cities and dedicated lore and locations that are their own, while they can still share hubs. We have Redguards, and the mystery of Yokuda. We have Orthard, and Gyr Abania which had an entire expansion dedicated around both. I know that the “well titans” is used as a justification in WoW, but I don’t really like it because I like seeing distinct and diverse human cultures, like the things you’d see in ASOIAF where you have typical medieval European cultures in the 7 Kingdoms, but then you still have places like Dorne, and Yi Ti that I would love to see more of. And in the case of Dorne, they have more culturally progressive thought processes (Rhoynar customs dictates greater equality between the sexes) that stand in contrast with the traditional views of the 7 Kingdoms.
Things like these add more to the world.
WoW’s approach is more of the multi-cultural city approach, which is well and fine, but it’s a matter of taste and preference where I like to see influences in architecture, religion, dress styles, food, and ultimately having a variety of culture.
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I feel like this was a bit of a long explanation to basically say you’re looking for justification to have black and brown people existing in wow’s setting.
The two things you listed are very much different stories yeah.
WoW per the devs simply a place that they see as diverse. That’s true for the Eurocentric options that have had the benefit of being the default options for how many years, and it’s now true for the start of more diverse options that they refer to as an oversight on their end.
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Justification or proper development? My culture is more than just my skin color and hair. It is my history, culture, religion, customs, traditions, clothes, food, and family. Again, I am fine with the approach. WoW has somewhat always had this approach with their lore. It just comes across as quick and lazy. My preference and interest will be stories where these things are fully expanded on.
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I’ma disagree. I like how my characters can look diverse but still have the same background. Just because my belf pally has darker skin doesn’t mean he has to come from new zone Taco’thalas that doesn’t have any pre-established lore. I prefer him to be a Blood Knight like any other.
Also, knowing the lore team they’d def do something that would upset people while trying to implement some kind of real life cultural connections, lmao.
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Yeah, my point of view ignores that I am happy that you get more customization options to create new characters and new stories. But as I said, I prefer having something more than that. I’m just someone who likes really getting into unexplored aspects of lore, like I’ve how been binging on ASIOAF/LOTR lore videos. I just feel it’s a shame that we can’t get that with human cultures in WoW.
This will always be a risk. I know people didn’t like Miss Marvel, but I loved it because they didn’t shy away from going into Pakistani Americans culture. But this is off topic lol.
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It’s true for the standard as a whole though. Humans just exist and are diverse in Azeroth. BEs, Gnomes, etc.
I don’t think diverse options should be withheld because they give them the same explanation the other options got.
I mean people feel like that about the Dark Ranger stuff and feel it should have been a dedicated race. Or wild hammer options a dedicated race. Blizzards customization as a whole was a SL selling point whether it was Dark Ranger customization on some races or more skin tone representation for players on others. So I don’t think the line to call it quick / lazy / pandering or what ever else people come up w should be at the diverse options.
I just think it’s a very thin line between this and people who are mad that these options happened because “the lore”. There’s people whose main issue w Rings of Power starts and ends w the diverse casting, I find that very suspect.
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Yeah I know I’m definitely in that murky territory, but it’s something I believe in to produce a higher quality story.
I didn’t like how diversity was represented in RoP, but I loved it in House of the Dragon. I think the difference for me is that the lore mattered when it came to House Velaryon. They were not typical dragon riders, and were instead seafarers who were close allies to House Targeryan. They commend respect, being the vast majority of the royal fleet, and are one of the richest houses in the 7 Kingdoms.
But with RoP, I’m a little conflicted. I loved Disa, and how it introduced stone-singing. I felt like that was seamless integration, more so because of her performance, but at the same time it makes me wonder if there’s more elaborate Dwarven kingdoms with a darker skinned Dwarf King with a unique take on things. Perhaps their Kingdom is founded on a different set of ore and gemstones, and that leads to a different style of architecture. Something like that.
It feels more like a wasted opportunity rather than a disdain for it happening.
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I think people invested in wanting better representation also wanting stuff like the above post I found is very valid.
But I don’t think that because that story hasn’t been written that it should impede customization options coming out.
Also I had to really dig for the above example but wanted to quote them because it’s a good example
I think in both cases the casting is not an issue.
I think if someone doesn’t like ROP or HOTD I really hope their reasoning isn’t diverse casting.
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What that person says really resonates with me. I love dark-skinned Light Blood Elves especially since I’ve seen some of the artwork people have posted since. It’s beautiful and kinda cat-like? Tbh I think that in the same vein that Blizz could conjure up Void Elves and Vulpera, they can add in some quick lore about it. Perhaps it doesn’t need to be an elaborate distant civilization, but I’d throw in some Blood Elf royal families to stir up some political intrigue without going into detail.
To the writers credit, I do see more diverse characters in Dragonflight. I just hope that they’ll continue to be part of the story because this game is in desperate need of new lore figures. In the same way that people have grown fond of characters like Khadgar, Jaina, and Anduin, I’d like to see the same for diverse characters.
Hearthstone is a great example I think. We have Cariel and Cornelius Roame. Cariel looks great and I feel like it’d be easy to just say something like “the Roame’s have been a part of Stormwind’s order of Paladins and her father Cornelius is a well respected Paladin master that had, at times, instructed Anduin in how to wield the light.”
I mean I get your point, it’s still good to push these things out instead of waiting for a perfectly crafted narrative, with art assets and backstories all fleshed out. But my hope is that there’s at least an effort to push out some lore.
If you’d read what I typed and were replying in good faith, you wouldn’t have tried so hard to reframe the question to make me seem racist. So I don’t feel like I owe you an answer.
And, a new record on the level of condescension has been set. So… where are these darker skinned humans? Where are they in game? When were they added?
No. I should not be asking why. I should not be gaslighting myself. I should not in fact have to explain the same things 500 times to people who can’t seem to grasp very basic
concepts of internal consistency.
Yeah. This is kind of old at this pont. If there are so many “not white” humans in game, point out where? That’s what I’m looking for. If you can do that? Great. If not, then the conversation is over. You pretty much lost the argument.
Oh and btw… Wrathion doesn’t count. You don’t get to use the Jason Momoa dragon because… he’s a dragon.
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Really? I thought I simply posed a question based on your many posts in this thread. You argue that’s not what you were saying?
You flat out asked why representation of black and brown people is important…
Definitely don’t understand why black and brown people existing is an issue for your immersion.
I’ve yet to see anything from your posts other than long winded rants against the options talked about in my OP and I find that suspect, why is that, what bothers you to this extent about these options being added that have already started being added that Blizzard already said was an oversight on their part taking this long to add what they’ve done up to this point.
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I’m really not interested in your Kafka Trap. I think I’ve said multiple times that what I want is an origin story because it’s at odds with the story of humanity’s very linear and stunted evolution in game. So please take your “You don’t want this? Why… You must be Racist!” nonsense somewhere else.
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I never said those words.
I asked you why black and brown people existing hurts your immersion which is words you used.
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my head hurts from reading this entire thread.
so much division for such miniscule reasons.
I see nothing wrong with adding a whole mess of customization. But as a gamer on a gaming forum I would want more jewelry, scars, tattoos, skin colors, faces, hairstyles etc etc…
My RL or culture representation in this game is walking and talking cows. I see no reason to bring agency from outside of a fantasy setting into it though.
I guess my point is everyone would be ok with huge customization options added across the board, skin tone and hair included. So that any real world person is able to make a character they are happy with.
But then I remember this is blizz, and that wish sounds like hard work. Maybe the new teams coming in will care more.
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