You should be using a targeting keybind and/or clicking and/or target arena 1/2/3 regardless, but now you would no longer have to ADDITIONALLY have a focus keybind/mouseover and/or focus 1/2/3 on top of needing to have several distinct keybinds/modifers w/ keybinds so that you can press the exact same spells on each target without needing to change targets.
I don’t know you but most people I know use either focus or arena123 macros, not both. Venruki for example has said that he never uses arena 123 and just uses focus, I personally just use arena123 to target but use focus for ability macros.
If focus is removed then anyone like me is forced to use the much more complex version of using 3 macros per ability instead of 1. Not to mention that you can use focus for a friendly target so you furthermore make anyone that does that lose functionality (in rbgs for example if you’re the dps that peels when a base is attacked, you might focus the base sitter to notice when they are in combat.
FOcus for people like me (or venruki) is the simplified version of arena123, if you already use arena123 then there’s little use for focus in arena, don’t know why you’re using both.
I mean, have it your way though. Would be nice if you guys had at least some idea or suggestion. Maybe my ideas are bad, but yours are non-existent and are therefore worthless [e.g., yours are the equivalent to just being okay with the steady decline and eventual death of the game, whereas mine at least involve actively trying to come up with ways to reverse the steady decline and/or prevent the eventual death of the game].
Add rewards for all game modes (mount for SS and blitz).
Gold rewards and something to push more healers to queue, maybe even cosmetics.
Bring back something pvpers can use to get gold. In DF, you could sell Ires and spend honor on shields to sell them to vendor. Right now, honor heraldries sell for nothing and can’t spend honor on greens since you need a ton of honor to get sockets, especially if you have alts.
Fix the mmr issues:
MMR being super deflated when low participation at beginning of season
Healers mostly going 3-3 and thus having less incentive to queue
blitz mmr being super high and cr gains being super slow
Maybe better displaying mmr, making everything % based or changing the whole system is needed, I don’t know.
Incorporate some much needed addons into the game as you mentioned: Bigdebuffs, OmniBar, OmniCC, sArena.
Make offensive cds ultra clear ingame without needing weak auras. Few specs have this already, we need the game to better display when someone used a cd that’s not just tracking buffs/debuffs (there are too many already)
Have the game provide you with needed information. If I’m queueing with a priest and a shaman, maybe the game can tell me what of the abilities I have, shares DR with theirs when I hover over my CC abilities or something.
Maybe create a 3v3 SoloQueue option that’s not shuffle. It might lessen the queue times issues since it would cut time in 1/6 of a shuffle.
Change the LFG system, maybe automate it, currently its really bad and toxic
I have a lot more ideas but less related to shuffle/blitz.
So there’s 3 days of posts I don’t know if anyone else has spoken about this but I think focus frame is a better option to have in the game than not, but it’s important to highlight that @arena123 has done nothing but contribute to the problems wow has in terms of a scripted meta & people feeling like they’re playing the same thing over and over again.
If you didn’t play before @arena functionality was added it might not make sense, but before @arena 123 everyone had to do everything reactively. You couldn’t just sit there spamming a macro that wouldn’t activate until the @arena target was available. You could have @focus, but unless you set the focus target there was no target. Does that make sense?
If you’re going to try to make the game appeal to the masses, IMO attacking @arena functionality does more than @focus.
We also had a chance with wow classic to see how @arena changed the behaviour of players. Seeing top players like snutz, mir, etc. practicing on Endless for TBC only to have the wrench that is @arena change their strategies as it allowed inhuman gameplay speeds. - I don’t know if the speed with which you react to things is meta defining in modern wow, but it shouldn’t be difficult to see why it’s different to target select or focus set & then use an ability, vs targeted bindings. Think of it like manually healing vs /cast [@Maguscarslen] Dispel Magic but for arena slots.
Focus allows you to track another player as a modified cast target who you can designate at will, but only one at a time. Arena 123 allows you to designate 3 targets at will at any time.
Arena 123 is much more complex, and IMO detrimental to the accessibility of wow pvp. I think wow pvp may or may not be more rich for it existing, but for terms of new players getting in, there’s nothing intuitive about getting 0.01s sheared on a polymorph as you come out of invisibility because they’re spamming windshear arena 3.
I think manual targeting & focus is much more organic and therefore intuitive, and that nature, intuition, is what modern wow lacks IMO. It should be intuitive how to fight other players and control our characters, including targeting. Focus is just one level deeper. Arena123 is game re-defining.
I think Arena123 contributes to the game feeling like a script when there’s no reaction going on. Arena 123 lets you comfortably sit on a pre-set strategy as elements of surprise don’t matter. You don’t need to react to a druid suddenly popping to clone, you were already tapping that para macro. You don’t need to re-target to stun the rogue off your healer, It’s arena2.
I think manual targeting & focus was the sweet spot. And I think there’s an important difference between arena123 macro functionality & targeting options. - It’s also not an easy fix, even without @arena123 macros you can /target arena123 & Targetlasttarget for most identical purposes. Arena123 simply didn’t exist until a certain patch battlecruiser can probably dig up. - I think some niche addons had their own arenaframes & enabled keybinds to focus123 their frames similar but not identical to cast@functions.
I don’t think it’ll change, I just think it’s weird to attack focus out of a desire for accessibility when arena123 exists. If you want to simplify the game arena123 has to go, not focus.
I think a lot of the ideas in the op come from a good place & aren’t bad. I think removing focus is bad & also hurts non-arena pvp come to think of it. Focus is nice for bgs & wpvp
2200 > 2000 > 1800 > further devalue 1800 by adding shuffle/blitz which have a minimum 400 free MMR. It doesn’t need to be easier. Elite sets are easier to get than their standard conquest counterpart.
I think I might have not accurately conveyed what I was trying to say when I said arena 123. I was only intending to reference the targeting of each player, not with the abilities tied to macros.
E.g., the default ui now let’s us keybind targeting arena 1/2/3, which is what targeting macros equated to.
I think we agree on this I just explained myself poorly. I agree that arena 1/2/3 macros are also something that should be removed/disabled (e.g., not being able to press 3 different binds for counterspell via single inputs in order to silence each player individually without changing targets).
Said another way, yes I think all 1/2/3 macroing of spells/abilities should be disabled, for both targeting and focus (e.g., if to keep the focus frame). Ideally, you would have to manually use your targeting bind(s), which only target and nothing more, every time you want to hit a different target with an ability.
While I still feel that removing the focus frame would further simplify things, if to keep the focus frame, the same principle would apply (e.g., you have to manually use your focus 1/2/3 binds and these binds can only be used with respect to setting the focus frame, where no abilities can be tied to them); (e.g., when switching targets and/or focus, you would always need to make at least two inputs – target/set focus + spell/ability, as opposed to now where you can get away with just 1 input by making several 1/2/3 binds for the same spell/ability).
I don’t understand why you’re stuck thinking that removing macros simplifies the game. I get what you’re saying, you think that the option of having macros brings unnecessary complexity to the game but macros end up doing the opposite. They are literally ways of simplifying gameplay and provide more depth to your learning experience.
Imagine saying that because most people click their abilities when they are new, we’re going to disable keybinds. We don’t have to make it so the game can only be played in a way new players do.
If anything, the complexity comes not from macros or arena123 or focus targets but because there’s too much stuff to track in the game. you press 1 ability and it puts 3+ debuffs on your target, most big ofensive / defensive cds are difficult to track. Macros are customization options that let you simplify gameplay instead of the clunkiness of normal targeting. You also cannot even choose what debuffs to see without addons and even with addons its tricky to setup.
Just imagine the normal experience of playing with vs without macros:
You enter arena, right click healer. When healer is casting you press focus kick macro and continue playing
vs
you enter arena, when healer is casting its much more difficult to notice, and you have to press 1 button to target them, then your kick, then another button to go back.
We’ll just have to disagree on this one. While there may be some macros that are good for simplification, no one being objective about the game can think that needing (or being able) to have 3-4 different bindings/macros to utilize the exact same spell can be simplifying gameplay. I also don’t agree that needing (or being able) to have have 3-4 different bindings/macros to utilize the exact same spell adds any depth to the game. Being able to handle more keybinds does not equate to depth (at least not in my eyes).
I didn’t say that all macros were bad, and am mainly just referring to targeting and focus 1/2/3.
I agree with this, which is another reason I’m an advocate for disabling the focus frame.
Again, this might “simplify” gameplay for the top few % of players, especially those that have the “the more keybinds I need the happier I am” mindset, but these customization options for the majority are an added layer of complexity. The average gamer probably doesn’t even know what a macro is in terms of gaming, let alone how to make complex ones, and they aren’t likely to be retained/stick with the game to learn (e.g., few gamers (imo) are going to want to spend hours upon hours researching addons, macros, or years getting dunked on by veteran players who already know how to make the most out of macros, before they can even fathom becoming competitive).
The focus frame is also incredibly annoying due to how many specs (and also shadowmeld) can force drop your focus frame.
Noting that your scenario is very specific to 2v2 only, it’s ignoring the fact that in all other ranked pvp content, you can’t just simply right click a healer at the beginning of the match and then call it a day. Instead, you have to be constantly switching your focus target between 3 players (if not more if you also use focus binds for your teammates) on top of paying attention to your primary target.
Your scenario has merit in the niche situation of 2v2 where neither spec on the enemy team can force drop your focus frame + you just want to tunnel one target all game, but in the majority of ranked pvp scenarios, that argument as to why 1/2/3 ability macros simplifies the game doesn’t really hold up.
Then we get into modes like bgblitz, where you have at least a solid handful (or more in things like epic bgs), and you’ll be in a never-ending process of constantly changing your focus target, instead of just having to worry about your primary target frame.
Again, don’t get me wrong guys, I use the focus frame and more focus macros than I probably even need, and yeah, it allows me to make some plays a bit faster (e.g., I’ve even been accused of botting a couple times, because the player(s) I dunked on didn’t understand how/why they got shutdown so hard with cc without me targeting them).
Having said that, putting myself in the shoes of what I imagine is a new player dipping their toes into wow pvp, I think that wow pvp would be much more approachable with no focus frame, no macros that can affect players that aren’t your primary target, etc.
Even just thinking about it from the perspective of current classic wow (which I also play), it is incredibly refreshing to me to only need to put counterspell or gouge on my bars once and assign one keybind to them. I still use macros, such as /startattack, macroing trinkets into my burst cooldowns, pickpocket with cheapshot macro, etc., and these types of macros (e.g., that don’t allow you to attack secondary players without targeting them and/or that don’t force you to track and constantly reset 2 frames instead of 1 frame) surely do simplify the game.
At the end of the day I don’t think we’ll agree on this, but I still feel that allowing for these types of macros and having the focus frame adds zero depth and unnecessary complexity that is off-putting to new players + greatly widens the skill gap between new players and veteran/skilled players [e.g., again, being okay having 3-4 binds for many of your spells might be thoroughly enjoyed by the top few percent of players, but for most (probably 95+%), it just becomes incredibly tedious trying to reach the point where you are playing your character optimally in pvp due to there being way too much information to efficiently track (for most) and an absurd amount of keybinds that must be assigned/learned (not to mention the added stress this has on a person’s hand(s) as they try to fit all the binds in that they need in an ergonomic manner].
If I was in charge of the PvP balance, I could have this game balanced in a few months, simply by consulting with 1 rank per week and doing a checkin and providing them a standard $100/hr for their time, or whatever they feel they are worth.
It is not just PvP balance either; the open world is very lacking, and the only challenging content requires a 5-person party for M+ or Mythic Raid.
I had a 2000+ word feedback thread on beta forums in spring before they launched the TWW and Activision Blizzard did not take 1 point of the advice I provided. Several others held some of these same views. It’s hopeless to provide feedback; they do nothing with it and will go their own direction for profit, always. Actually, I have a feedback thread for WoW open right now. It is getting no traction, and their changes are already set in stone, so it seems. You can view it here:
no one being objective about the game can think that needing (or being able) to have 3-4 different bindings/macros to utilize the exact same spell can be simplifying gameplay. I also don’t agree that needing (or being able) to have have 3-4 different bindings/macros to utilize the exact same spell adds any depth to the game. Being able to handle more keybinds does not equate to depth (at least not in my eyes).
Well you are wrong. focus macro you set it once and then you have a button that saves at least 3 button presses. Arena 123 the same. It requires a bit of a learning curve and once your muscle memory is set, it is 100% a simplification of the game vs manually targeting with mouse or tab, using ability, going back. And it you think it doesnt add any depth then play without them and see if you do the same.
Again, this might “simplify” gameplay for the top few % of players, especially those that have the “the more keybinds I need the happier I am” mindset, but these customization options for the majority are an added layer of complexity. The average gamer probably doesn’t even know what a macro is in terms of gaming, let alone how to make complex ones, and they aren’t likely to be retained/stick with the game to learn (e.g., few gamers (imo) are going to want to spend hours upon hours researching addons, macros, or years getting dunked on by veteran players who already know how to make the most out of macros, before they can even fathom becoming competitive).
My dude, players at 1600 use focus macros already. It became the norm. Arena123 sure, are considerably less used by players below 2.2k but focus macros are used by a lot of people. You also don’t need hours upon hours of anything. Like you said, you’re not talking about complex macros and focus macros are one of the simplest macros to make. You make one and then you just copy/paste over all your other cc/purge/kick spells and thats it.
The focus frame is also incredibly annoying due to how many specs (and also shadowmeld) can force drop your focus frame.
Granted. Droping focus frame is annoying, but the answer is not to then delete focus frame altogether lol.
Noting that your scenario is very specific to 2v2 only, it’s ignoring the fact that in all other ranked pvp content, you can’t just simply right click a healer at the beginning of the match and then call it a day. Instead, you have to be constantly switching your focus target between 3 players (if not more if you also use focus binds for your teammates) on top of paying attention to your primary target.
I’m not even talking about 2v2. Im certainly not the best player, but in SS even at around 2.3k/2.4k mmr I usually set up focus on healer and call it a day. Maybe only if theres a mage thats annoying I may set them up instead as my focus but you don’t need to be swapping focus to get to higher ratings. Same in blitz or rbgs. You decide on a healer, set them as your focus and enjoy.
Setting focus frame on a friendly target is niche and not something you should do often.
I still feel that allowing for these types of macros and having the focus frame adds zero depth and unnecessary complexity that is off-putting to new players + greatly widens the skill gap between new players and veteran/skilled players
If it widens the gap then how can you argue that it adds no depth? that’s literally depth.
you’re describing how to utilize focus macros in order to play sub optimally, and in many cases, in such way that is to an extent soft throwing [e.g., if you’re aware of the fact that the healer isn’t always who should be your focus target].
Saving button presses and/or having to change targets more often at the expense of having to bind the same spell to 1-3 extra keys depending on how efficient you want to become isn’t simplification. You’re describing a trade-off (at best).
You’re missing the point. I’m not saying that focus macros are an issue for existing players, or even perhaps a small % of new players (e.g., those that have veteran wow friends guiding them, helping them, etc.), but from the lens of someone completely new to wow and specifically wow pvp, the focus frame and focus macros are added complexity that will turn these players away.
Not everyone wants to embark on learning an impossible-to-balance pvp game that requires 50-70+ keybindings per spec and a suite of addons for starters.
Again, you’re describing playing sub optimally, which most competitive-minded gamers don’t want to do. You’ve also unintendedly supported my point, because presumably you’re playing sub optimally (e.g., often or always only setting a healer as a focus target) because you’re overwhelmed by the extra binding requirements that it would take to play your character optimally. I know you won’t admit it, and you can come back with whatever excuse(s) you’d like, but that’s the only logical conclusion there is.
Also telling me about your anecdotal experiences at 1600, 2.3k-2.4k, etc. doesn’t help your point at all if you aren’t going to tie those ratings to a particular season and/or time frame (e.g., 1600 at the start of some seasons will be nothing but seasoned gladiators, while 2400 late in some seasons will be littered with previously career-high challengers).
Another example of describing sub optimal play. If you want to play efficiently/optimally for many specs, then you also need to have party 1/2/3 macros and/or focus macros for applicable party members (e.g., bop teammate 1/2 to be able to save them/get them out of cc without losing damage, shadowstep teammate 1/2 to be able to retreat more effectively, earthshield 1/2, etc.).
You’re explaining to me that you are fine playing handicapped and/or sub optimally (which is fine, enjoy the game how you’d like), and can’t seem to think objectively about the focus frame from the lens of a brand new player. Your mindset is the more popular one no doubt (e.g., especially since blizzard has lowered the skill required to acquire most rewards considerably, so much that you need little more than a pulse to acquire some if not most of them regardless of how good you are at the game), and it’s also one of the major reasons why the pvp population is declining fast.
Depends on your definition of depth. If you find that needing multiple keybinds and/or keybinds w/ modifiers to use the same spell on different targets adds depth, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. To me, all it does is widen the gap as the more keybinds required just continues to shrink the % of players that can effectively/efficiently handle so many keybinds (e.g., whether due to brain processing power, hand dexterity, mouse and/or keyboard type, etc.). If the extra keybinds required were for different unique spells, that would be one thing (e.g., similar to having extra keys on a piano to achieve different unique notes), but imagine needing to press 3 different keys on a piano to achieve the exact same note, with the only difference being the direction the sound is primarily directed. Seems silly to me.
You’d presumably be a higher rated player than you are at this moment if you weren’t playing at a disadvantage/playing sub optimally (e.g., you opt to just focus a healer at the start of a match in most cases, whereas others do not because this is sub optimal in most cases, so you’ve described a gap that is larger than it would be if neither you or the others were dealing with a focus frame/focus macros).
Lastly, try to keep in mind that the most successful pvp games right now require you to learn 5-6 keybindings per character on average, and that there is just as much (if not more) depth in these games as compared to wow (e.g., take League of Legends, Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Fortnite, Dota2, etc.).
Being able to process more clutter on the screen and/or more keybinds for the same spell DOES NOT equate to depth! I’d also argue that information overload and increasingly extensive keybind requirements are one of the major reasons that classic wow is continuously growing in popularity compared to retail (e.g., because at the end of the day, it is more approachable/has a much lower barrier to entry in terms of being able to play your specs optimally).
I won’t even get started on the fact that target arena/focus arena macros requiring extra keybinds also alienates many pvers that want (or might want) to pvp casually but not at an inherent disadvantage, because they need to now assign a significant number of additional keybinds that won’t even benefit them in pve content (or even some pvp content such as battlegrounds).
Elite sets are easier to get than their standard conquest counterpart.
