Excess Fire and Frost Changes
- Excess Fire now triggers when you cast Meteor or Comet Storm (was reach max stacks of Fire Mastery).
- Excess Frost now triggers when you consume Excess Fire (was reach max stacks of Frost Mastery) and may stack up to twice. Excess Frost now casts Ice Nova at 200% effectiveness (was 125%).
Frostyownz’s notes: I just logged into PTR and Excess Fire and Frost are not any better, you still have to cast Ice Lance to get it to explode, and Ice Nova still comes out when you Flurry. Which means you are not saving any /cancelaura binds to stop it from cleaving in 2s. ‘Meteor’ dot is still going to be burning on the ground for 8 seconds.
The main concern is it this change still does not promote a control style of ‘Rated Arena’. It might make it so we do not need a WA to track excess fire, but, that is about it. Excess frost/fire has felt horrible as a control class this whole expansion. I need to be able to do damage without worrying about Meteor+Comet breaking polymorph. Especially in 2s at higher ratings - players are often stacked where one almost always needs to be Polymorphed. Comet+meteor are often our only options for high burst - instant damage. It is also our highest hitting instant cast burst in the game for frost, I think? I have not played all expansion, because of the sickness that spreads in modern WoW with 2v2 balance. 
No harm meant towards those trying to balance the game or enjoy playing it currently! I simply do not and have cancelled my subscription to reflect it.
I need to stress how important it is to re-Polymorph with 1 second left on Polymorph if your polymorph cast timer is 1 second. Breaking 1 polymorph at 2400 MMR is an auto L pretty much at higher dampening levels, if you are playing a control comp such as Frost Mage Rogue or Frost mage+Healer.
Here is a small example of Re-CC at higher MMR, it is not a perfect example, I just picked the first VoD on my mage. I climbed to 2400mmr with a different rDruid the week after, after I fixed my bars a bit:
We have Frostbite conflicting with Blastwave and Blizzard now lasting 12 seconds, which is really bad, like when we have a Devastation Evoker puling its healer into to break polymorph out of harms way at higher ratings, which screws up PolyDR timers. Forcing switch to the Disc Priest. Druid had other plans and did not see the DRs change/screw up. I do not think the Developers even listen to feedback from anywhere. Not the forums, not streams, nothing.
Perfect Re-CC is so important to not dying, but also scoring kills. The fact my orb breaks the 2nd poly on the priest when the dev pulled him away from saftey, forced me to go priest at the end of the clip, but my druid had other plans, so I accomodated and went dev with him. So yea, orb+blizzard technically need to be fixed too. You can actually hear something knock on my desk when the orb breaks it. I was 100% upset about this iirc and gave my desk a little kick. Increasing Blizzard Duration is not going to help. Sorry the Autism does not show my expression well lol.
Anothernote on the clip: To re-iterate, my rDruid wanted to go Devestation at the end, but the correct move was to go Disc Priest here if you look at Poly DRs. I also could have supernova’d the dev a few times to stop Disinigrate, which you see me spamming at the begginning of the game, but it does not hit the spellqueue. I tried to fix my spellqueue issues the last week of DF, it kind of worked, however, they patched anything and everything about a control play style and it just does not matter anymore that much.
Anyways, without perfect RE-CC, you can’t carry 2k players to 2200 or have any sort of skill effect the outcome of the game. In the vod you will see re-polymorphs on the priest here with 1.2 seconds left on them and I repoly with a 1.2 second cast timer. A common occurance at high rating. When Frostfire Mastery is effecting our cast timers, it creates a very sticky situation for the highest rated Frost mage games. Every game at high rating needs at least some minimal amount of perfect CC. Actually triple polys are arguably required to score the kill nearly every game as well. A lot of my vods I was playing ORC or Dark Iron or some version of the spec that I spam Ice Lance+splitting ice and stack mastery+damage, because it was better for a lot of Dragon Flight. Those vods will have terrible game play and CC examples, where you can see no skill in the players gameplay and the CC examples will be very sloppy.
Some other notes to add: Frostfire Mastery does give a ranging amount of haste, which typically does not create problems, but it is a pet peave of mind when trying to have perfect cross-CC; the difference between 1.2 second polymorph and 1.3 second polymorph can make or break a game, allow the monk to sneak in a caccoon or whatever at higher ratings. For this reason, Frostfire Mastery is a very horrible option for control classes in PvP. There are actually 0 pure ‘control classes’ in TWW, when in DF it was much higher. Which I am very upset about and has caused me to not push rating and just theory craft instead of play the game.
How it relates to excess fire/frost - it would be nice to not have Comet+Meteor+Frostfire Burst/Empowerment/Frost Bomb/etc have some intelligence about them, so they do not break Polymorphs. They are coming from the highest IQ class in the game after all. So why should their abilities behave worse mechanics than a warrior with fear, able to blade storm or take a couple of my frostbolts without breaking?
Anyways, back to Excess Frost:
Having Excess Frost’s root work instead of being ignored in PvP would be huge! I get it might create too much damage in PvE but for PvP it could be so nice!
It is nearly nearly impossible in modern era to guarante Comet Storm lands on your target and every expansion it gets worse! The only way you can guarantee this, is coincidentally using it at the same time as frostbite. With freedoms, dispels and game sound, I am lucky to have comet do 50% of its expected damage value during the entirity of the game. Unless they are locked down by a rogue or other mechanics. Players at higher ratings just side step the meteor+comet. Almost every player stack movement enchants these days too. Heh.
Barrier Changes
- Ice Barrier – If the barrier is fully absorbed, enemies within 10 yards suffer massive Frost damage and are slowed by 70% for 4 seconds.
- Blazing Barrier – Reflects 100% of damage absorbed.
Frostyownz Notes: Having Ice Barrier cleave and break polymorphs is a bad idea. This also is forcing Frost Fire playstyle previoius talked about. Which is all anyone is playing now days.
Reflecting 100% of damage is also insane and can be abused against hunters opening with rapidfire rotation or mages using ice floes and Ray of Frosting another mage or someone with the barrier. Though it is a good counter for those situations.
I am hoping the reflecting is for the mage only and not tied to mass barrier as well. Most people do not have cancelaura barrier macros for mass barrier. I do have /cancel barriers including Powerword: shield for facing pesky Arcane Mages. The skill of your average 2k players, do not allow for this to happen. Though, I reallly do not think the change is good however you look at it. WoW PvP is suppose to be simple and not introduce tons of binds every single expansion!
Note: I have about 10 new binds this expansion because of all the changes. Every expansion it gets worse and worse! Though I do think the talent will only be taken against Hunters, and possibly counter mages who ray behind pillars. Regular barrier is generally way better in dampening 2s, and if not, all 2v2 games, which is what I usually play.
Spellslinger
- Consuming Fingers of Frost or Winter’s Chill now generates a Splinter (was Winter’s Chill).
- Splintering Orbs now generates 5 Splinters for Frost Mages (was 6).
- Frost Splinter damage reduced by 10%.
- Splinterstorm damage reduced by 10%.
- Embedded Frost Splinter damage reduced by 10%.
Frostyownz Notes: I do like that lances no longer consume Winter’s Chill. I am not sure why they are nerfing Spellslinger. It is the only pure frost solution, not poluted by frostfire animations, random cleaving, changing of cast timers, etc. Also, giving us an incentive to consume Fingers of Frost is really bad. Promoting instant casting is generally a bad idea in PvP as there is not much for counterplay, which we saw in wrath dropping orb, stacking mastery and spamming 10 ice lances. I do not know why we are bringing this play style back? I have been complaining about it ever since they started re-introducing this playstyle and making mastery effective again. I provide a solution for the Fingers in my next post.
Frost Mage Changes
- Freezing Winds has been redesigned – Now causes Frozen Orb to deal 15% more damage to units affected by your Blizzard.
- Blizzard damage increased by 100%.
- Blizzard increased to a 12 yard radius (was 8 yards).
- Blizzard duration increased to 12 seconds (was 8 seconds).
- Ice Lances empowered by Fingers of Frost no longer consume Winter’s Chill.
Frostyownz Notes: The blizzard and orb damage are nice. Might make a Cold Front build viable. Out of all the feedback I gave on beta, they did not take 1 suggestion. So I have no hope here either. For instance, subzero should be against frozen targets, not just frozen and rooted. Plus so much more, which I will not even elaborate on or touch on here; sadless they deleted it.
Here it is, if they mind to take a peep, ignore the tier ratings, those are performance ratings as the mage trees were in spring/summer 2024, not ratings of what will or will not make the game better or worse via mechanics and/or playstyle:
Frost Mage PvPers Feedback.
I want to start by saying, I have over 20,000 hours of /played on Frost Mage in 2v2 arena mostly. I am going to start from the top of the Mage tree on the left side and then work on the Frost Tree on the right side. Then touch on Hero talents, PvP talents, Frost Mastery and Frostbolt vs Ice Lance Damage.
Mage Tree
Cryo-Freeze:
Should not be 50% in PvP. It should remain 80%.
Reabsorption: Should not be nerfed by 2% per mirror. On live, its hardly even good enough for any frost mage to take in PvP. Some of us do take it, it actually needs a buff.
Ring of Frost and Ice Nova:
Should not share the same tier. Ring of Frost is a prerequisite for PvP. Spellslinger mages will not be able to shatter Comet Storm and Frostfire mages with Isothermic Core will not be able to shatter Comet Storm+Meteor without a random Ice Nova proc. Also, Ice nova, Ring of Frost and DB are perquisites for frost mage PvP.
Mass Polymorph:
Make it a choice node with Ice Nova. I heard about this one on a stream. Great idea.
Arcane Warding or Incantation of Swiftness:
Consider making it 1 point, so remove curse is not required to get. Make sure to mirror the tree on the other side too. So that only 1 talent point is used for winter's protection or tempest barrier.
Diverted Energy and Accumulative Shielding: Does not work with Mass Barrier.
Barrier Diffusion: Getting Blazing Barrier dispelled should reduce both Ice Barrier's and Mass Barrier's cooldown. Having 0 seconds come off Ice Barrier cooldown from Blazing Barrier being dispelled, is horribly underpowered for PvP. Consider making it effect Ice Barrier's cooldown from all barriers that are dispelled.
Dragons Breath & Super Nova:
If we cannot have Ice Nova and Ring. Then, consider placing Super Nova somewhere else, as with current Frostbolt damage, Dragon's Breath or some type of CC helper, is a prerequisite for PvP. You also can’t do @arena123 with Supernova, but you can do /focus arena1 /cast [@focus] Supernova at that focus. You can arena123, with Ice Nova, Supernova should function the same. Again, Ice nova, Ring of Frost and DB are perquisites for Frost Mage PvP.
Tome of Rhonin & Tome of Antonidas:
Please switch their places. All PvP mages are already taking Energized Barriers. Which unlocks the tier below. Not all mages are taking Improved Frost Nova or Tome of Rhonin. Switching the Tome's places, allows us to get Frigid Winds, while still having points for Temporal Velocity etc.
Time Manipulation and Diverted Energy:
Good old swap-o-roo here. i.e. Swap their positions in the tree. Keeping on the time theme with Alter Time but also on the Barrier theme with Accumulative Shielding. Makes sense and is better for Frost PvP.
Frost Tree:
Comet storm:
Not available if you are taking Ring of Frost. Currently taking Ice Nova and not Ring of Frost, is really bad. But, I have to, because Comet Storm's damage on the move is invaluable when weaving Polymorphs and getting trained. Comet Storm hits almost 100% harder than Ice Lance and has delayed burst, making it great, the healers do not know if they should trinket or not because the spell comes down delayed. Just wish it did not cleave and break Polymorphs.
Death's Chill:
Keep it 2% per stack or consider making it: Death's Chill affects Frostbolt only, all the time, not just Icy veins is not active, like Ice Form bug currently does. The stacks can carry over into Icy Veins too. That way you can get 15 stacks before you start your go with Icy Veins+Slick Ice. Leaning into the word "Death's" and "Chill" meaning you are less alive not having Icy Veins - you are in a moment of chilling. Not sending your lively go.
Ray of Frost:
Should be competitve with Ice Lance spam build. I do not even take Ray with Death's Chill build in 2s, but am now considering it. As Ray just got buffed 20% and Death's Chill nerfed to the ground. What the hell blizzard? In-actuality its only a 11% Ray Buff, as I play Frostbolt build and will have those Death's Chills stacks anyways.
Glacial Spike:
Should be competitive with Ice Lance spam build.
Frostbolt:
Should be competitive with Ice Lance spam build.
Slick ice: Should switch positions with freezing rain. Makes since because there are supporting Frostbolt talents all around freezing rain. Some people do not want to take Thermal Void, as they sometimes rarely spam ice lance for the extra 0.5 seconds.
Frostbite:
Some mages do not like playing Frostbite as Healer+Frost. We can't use supernova or blastwave when it procs. Yet you have made Frostbite required to get Ray of Frost because it is not logical to get Splitting Ice just to get Ray of Frost as Splitting Ice breaks too much CC. Taking Subzero without Frostbite also makes almost 0 sense. Frost Mages who want to play Ice Ward and no Frostbite should never take Splitting Ice. Those types of mages usually want maximum control. Considering switching Chain Reaction and Splitting Ice positions or Hailstones and Splitting Ice.
Splitting Ice, Chain reaction and Hailstones:
Their positions are horrible for non cleaving mages who do not want to run Frostbite. Considering moving them around in someway like described earlier.
Splitting Ice:
Should not break Polymorphs or CC'd targets. Fractured Frost does not, why does splitting ice?
Splintering Cold:
Possibly, make this 1 point.
Frostfire
Isothermic Core:
Comet should not place a meteor. Meteor leaves a patch on the ground, causing polymorphs and other CC to potentially track into meteor.
Excess Frost:
Flurry should not cast an ice nova. This will be breaking polymorphs and blinds like mad!
Frostfire Empowerment:
Frostfire bolt should not explode on damage. Again, this will break polymorphs.
Excess Fire:
Ice lance should not spread living bomb. Same exact points, again.
Frostfire Bolt:
Use to not effected by Slick Ice, PvP modifiers, and some other things. Does less damage than Frostbolt in PvP. As far as Frostfire goes, getting locked on both frost and fire is really bad; we will not be able to dragons breath without cold snapping.
Spellslinger
Seems fine for Frost PvP. Shifting power does not send out shards to break polymorphs, but some splinters do break other things, Blinds, Ring of Frost, etc and other things. The problems I have with it are losing 6% haste+mastery that Frostfire has. As well as double barrier(needed for dispel protection). Frostbolt should do 25% more damage than Ice Lance as spellslinger, Lance can be nerfed 25%. Consider reducing Frostbolt cast time and/or a 6% haste+verse buff and not letting it break CC at all. Also Frostbolt due to the PvP scaling has a really high spell power co-effecient. It's like 7:1 in against a player in PvP. It almost forces me to go human because of this and run double dps trinket. Consider doing something here about this.
Here are some dispel protection ideas:
Old Look Again:
"Your displacement has 50% longer range and duration.".
New Look Again:
"Your displacement has 50% longer range and duration. Your shimmer reduces displacement cooldown by 2.5 seconds, and buffs all current wearing shields by 7.5%.".
Old Reactive Barrier:
"Your Ice Barrier can absorb up to 50% more damage based on your missing Health. Max effectiveness when under 50% health".
New Reactive Barrier:
"Your Ice Barrier can absorb up to 50% more damage based on your missing Health. Max effectiveness when under 50% health. When your barrier is dispelled, refresh arcane intellect and gain a 3% tempest barrier".
PvP Talents
Frostbomb:
Currently does about the same damage as Frostbolt critical strikes, unless you use it at the end of your Death's Chill Ramp, then it may do about 10-20% more, but its very rare and too hard to manage in PvP. Just as using Ray of Frost at the end of Death's Chills ramp is too hard to time to make Ray worth taking right now. Ray of Frost damage in PvP is severely undertuned. Frostbomb is a prerequisite but also breaks polymorphs and screws up Sub+Frost go's. Secret Technique on the Sub tree has this problem as well.
Ice Form:
Should be about 10 seconds longer and/or effect more than just Frostbolt damage. Death's Chill lasts outside of Ice Form when Ice Form is selected.
Ice Wall:
Consider binding its rotation to the mouse after first click. Having to turn your character and not see its exact placement is a very bad design.
If I drop 17% verse for 17% mastery. I gain roughly 20% Ray and Ice Lance damage, but I lose 50k/damage per Frostbolt at level 70. Also, 20%+ Ray damage is still not enough to bring it up to speed with Frostbolt spam with Death's Chill. This makes mastery worthless for Frostbolt build. As it should be. Mastery should not be a pvp stat frost mages take. We should reward the player for casting not spamming an instant like Ice Lance. Also, Frostbolt (spellslinger) should hit for a minimum of 25% more than Ice Lance after 15 stacks, not 25% less or equal to. Maybe I am missing something? Like generating more Spellslinger shards with Frozen orb, and you need to play Cold Front in PvP? Not entirely bad but, calling down an orb will break CC. Not sure what route they are trying to go here? Let me know. Dragonflight was so good for Frost PvP, they started buffing Ice Lance and everything went to poo.
Mage Category Grade Letter Scores A to F
Mage Tree: F
Barrier Diffusion, Tomes, Dragons Breath, Super Nova, Reabsorption, Time Manipulation, Diverted Energy and Cryo-Freeze could all be better.
Frost Tree: C-
Talents look decent, but their positioning are bad!
Frostfire Tree: F -
Cleaving mainly is horrible for Organized PvP.
Spellslinger Tree: C+
Only because Spellslinger Frost has a chance to work. Though some of the shards still break Polymorphs!!! Frostfire is required for double barrier dispel protection and it provides up to 6% haste+mastery. Make Spellslinger provide 6% haste+verse or 6% haste and 1250 intellect.
PvP Tree: C-
Frostbomb breaking Polymorph is horrible! Would be a B+ just with that change. Ice form is too short on duration to get 5 Frostbolts+re-polys off to make it worth it. Needs to be 27 seconds minimum. With DK changes like 4 second Polymorphs, sometimes I will pop icy veins and maybe only get 2 Frostbolts off, due to double Grip, shorter CC etc. As I have been playing Frost PvP since Jan 2006. I have 1200 days /played or even more on Frost Mage. I specialize in Frost and nothing else!Most Rank 1 Frost Mages believe in rewarding hard casted damage like Ray+Glacial+Frostbomb or even just pure Frostbolt build. It’s a personal preferences really. Let use choose, do not force us to play Ice Lance spam. We should be able to pick Frostbolt or Ray+Glacial or Ice Lance or combos.
Frost mage viability:
S tier but only for Ice Lance spam Frostfire build. We will have to see how it plays out in actual rated games.