Yeah I felt that with old spriest but not so much anymore. Think I’ll just stick to demo until they buff the demonbolt spec. I absolutely loathe the tyrant
2 Likes
I despise Tyrant. Just give us back Doomguard, make it strong, and remove the ramp required to “set it up”. Give Nether Portal that ramp functionality Tyrant currently has if that’s what some players want. Heavy reliance on ramp has absolutely no place in WoW in its current state.
Most of your claims were about disproving the viability by trying to use AI exploitation and pet manip as a reason its not.
Dogs give Dbolt procs… but so do your other demons… imps are a 5% chance on death I believe the more active you are the less actual shards you have to generate with sbolt.
You then spoke about Deci bolts and we won’t have that after SL etc etc… again we won’t know what the spec turns into after SL… could be same could be drastically different… kinda the path Demo locks walk.
I mean a rework? again? lol we change pretty substantially from xpac to xpac… this is the closest we have stayed in 2 xpacs hence why every new expansions we lose just as many demos as we gain outside a few hardcores and the bottom line is blizzard has no idea what they wanna do with demo. We could complain nonstop and get something far worse who knows.
If you like Fat demonbolts go Necrolord and play the demonbolt spec ive seen people pull some gnarley stuff with 31k+ dbolts. The setup blows a bit but the reward is pretty funny.
1 Like
Do u have to play Balespiders I’m assuming? I wonder if synergy would work
Bale gives you the largest bang with that spec for sure.
If you are going that route… go all in pimpin.
1 Like
Idk man if you don’t think those things are a problem then you must have never played any other spec. I don’t understand how someone who’s genuinely good at the game and understands the spec could argue that it’s fine and doesn’t have major flaws. Even still, if you think the current design philosophy and spec fantasy is good, you should still be fighting to make it as well designed as possible. (I genuinely don’t understand how anyone could like this current design better than MoP/WoD or anything else Demo could be designed around). If you care please read the post I made about Demo. Demonology Warlock (A thread for Issues, Fixes, and Future Reworks)
I talked all about the functional problems, design flaws, missed opportunities, and possible better reworks/designs. If you fundamentally disagree with me after reading through it then I’m not sure what else to really say.
Edit: Also I’d like to clarify I’m a fan of your content and I think it’s cool that you’re sticking to Demo and trying to make it work. I just can’t agree with the idea that the spec is well designed right now especially when you compare it to any of its previous iterations. I’d take Legion design over current in a heartbeat.
2 Likes
Lol… you make sweeping generalizations all over the place. I know pet issues can be a problem… I am happy for the AI change… I know there are other issues. Multi glad as multiple specs over multiple xpacs.
Allow me to post a few observations.
- No one cares how long you have played demo or that it was your favorite puppy in the store etc if you don’t even post on your demo or warlock because it reeks of not having enough confidence for people to just not go “You don’t understand anything about the game”
- No one is saying that Demo’s current iteration is better then its predecessors. I loved MoP demo… Enjoyed WoD Legion was decent I actually enjoyed the end of BFA and Its not too bad currently… but do you notice… I said its not too bad… its not great and it could obviously use tweaks but thats kinda general opinion. I am talking playstyle not viability obv.
- Wanting it to “Return to what it was” could horribly backfire bc again its been drastically different over multiple xpacs.
- No one… is going insane over tyrant… the AI change helped a lot but no one is suuper excited about having a NPC be our burst.
- Last but not least… I never once said that current demo mechanically is fantastic or that It could not enjoy a tweak I said a mid xpac rework… is highly unlikely considering we are “Reworked” every xpac.
Glad you enjoy the content I just feel like you are not actually reading what I posted you were just trying to get me to look at your list of changes… and I thought I was making it work 
edit; cleaned it up a tad didn’t want to come across as aggressive.
1 Like
That’s fine man I respect your opinion and thank you for responding and being civil. I didn’t post on my lock because I haven’t touched arena with Demo since Legion and I quit him this xpack at level 52. I definitely still understand the spec. I follow all of the changes every expansion in hopes that it will be fun again one day and I read posts and discuss Demo a lot. Maybe it’s one of those things where it’s extremely obvious that it has flaws on paper, but in practice when you have partners to help you CC and setup they can be mostly negated. I still stand by my belief that Demo has fundamental design flaws that need to be addressed.
Also ya, I definitely don’t like the new design at all. I won’t beat around the bush. There is not a single thing I like better about the current design than literally any of its past post-BC designs including Legion. It’s definitely really frustrating that the reasons we got reworked in the first place are completely nonsensical. We had a strong toolkit that did its job extremely well and a completely unique playstyle and design philosophy. To just completely change that playstyle entirely right out from under us without offering a similar playstyle in any other spec just feels terrible.
Just keep doing what you do man and hopefully one day Demo will get the shadow priest treatment. I don’t think the current design could ever work without having a few major flaws but I’d at least like blizzard to try and prove me wrong instead of sitting in complete silence. We need dedicated class devs back. Having 2-3 devs who rotate between classes means we almost never get changes and when we do, they’re almost never enough. Class design is the most important aspect of the game.
2 Likes
I think you are greatly doing yourself a disservice by only paper crafting it and not actually dipping your toes in.
Its hard to accurately gauge things from a paper perspective. In the worst case you could go “yep still not for me” but you might enjoy yourself.
2 Likes
Hard is underselling imo. Next to impossible.
1 Like
I know its… not realistic in the slightest but might make him actually try the spec.
Since I don’t have recent XP I doubt I’d be able to find partners as a Demo Lock. Besides, at least to me, doing something that I know I used to enjoy way more in the past just feels bad to me. The only other spec I’ve ever enjoyed (Feral) was also drastically changed in Legion (although not as much) and they keep making it worse every expansion. I quit SL like 3 weeks ago. Gonna stay away until either Demo or Feral get meaningful changes. Also can’t convince myself to play a different class at this point. None of them fit me. Honestly even if another class had a spec that played exactly like old Demo I wouldn’t play it because it wouldn’t be a Warlock. I just want to play my Warlock.
1 Like
Plus this way you get to be “correct” no matterwhat’s more experienced demonologists tell you because you’ve already convinced yourself on a piece of paper.
1 Like
Except you don’t.
You might want to play some past version you have locked in your head but that can be manipulated by so many things. Often when we look at past xpacs we glorify what they were without realizing how many stupid things existed at the same time… classic server and upcoming TBC is a prime example of that.
Feral is strong… you not enjoying that might again be playstyle related bc the class is fantastic in pvp.
I know it won’t come across as wonderful but you should just stop participating in these discussions or trying to give input because you are not even playing the spec/class and you are paper crafting ontop of papercraft ontop of a past idea of what you once had and you don’t have any experience or actual proof just this idea in your head of what’s viable and what’s not and enjoyment is completely subjective but ide never give a ounce of thought or attention to someone on something they don’t even participate in.
3 Likes
I went on MoP and WoD private servers to go back and see if I was just looking back with rose tinted glasses. I enjoyed the spec just as much as I did back then. I think the design still holds up incredibly well and I wasn’t just imagining it being much better than it actually was in my head. The spec was genuinely just as good as I remembered it all these years later and in comparison to current day.
I don’t enjoy Feral because we lost all of our unique utility in the Legion iteration and 90% of our damage now is Ferocious bite instead of bleeds. We’re supposed to be the bleed spec. They also made the spec braindead with Sabertooth and it’s been a mandatory talent since then despite them repeatedly saying talents that simplify the rotation shouldn’t be better than talents that don’t.
Also my main argument wasn’t even that Demo isn’t viable. In the beginning it was one of my arguments, but I set that aside to discuss its actual objective flaws when you disagreed with me. You cannot possibly argue that current Demo doesn’t suffer from deep-seated design problems with its current iteration. You can argue that there are workarounds that allow it to function to an extent, but they’re still there. Old Demo had none of these flaws. The only flaws it had could have been easily fixed by simple number redistribution. Most of Demo’s current problems stem from the fact that it focuses so much on summoning demons instead of actually dealing damage. Our old design fit the Master Demonologist philosophy a lot better than current too. So sure you can invalidate my claims of whether its viable or not since I don’t have personal experience climbing with it recently, but everything else is valid.
1 Like
You don’t know demos problems… you don’t play demo.
These are all papercrafted assumptions. Pet AI issues was a gigantic part of what created issues for demo… and that is gone. Our current “Flaws” are actually pvp talent based more then anything. I dislike Tyrant being health % based so a lot of external modifiers can change things but Its not “The worst” The Deci Dbolt Build is based around The warlock using demons to empower him. Even as Tyrant spec Doom is one of my largest damage contributors and that is from me and not the pet.
We are a lot closer this xpac to Summoners then the Imp mothers we were in BFA.
If they made tyrant instant now that its health % based that would be awesome but you keep talking full scrap because you don’t actually play the spec.
The biggest unified gripe for demo was tyrant and the demons AI and not being able to swap them and that is nolonger a issue.
The second gripe was pet durability and thats far better, not perfect but far better and that problem leads into problem 3
The third was pet summon cast time… and that still exists… we deal with that and hopefully they change it.
Idk its just a lot of papercraft and assumptions… but when I come from the pvp side and I am like “Naw bro that’s not how it is” and then Lostlegion comes from the pve side and is like “Naw bro its not like you think it is” then maybe just maybe
Its not like you think it is on paper.
3 Likes
I just don’t know why you want to try and get this absolute joke of a design to work when we can just get a revert or rework lol. Revert would be 10x easier since it worked fine before they’d just need to tune numbers. Rework would be 10x better for the spec since the current design is objectively bad. It takes from other specs, doesn’t fit its own playstyle, relies too much on AI for damage, relies too much on ramp mechanics, and isn’t utilizing the Demonologist theme as well as it could. There are so many different designs that would allow Demo to fit its own unique playstyle/niche and allow it to be much more solid. Think you’re forgetting we were reworked in Legion for no sensible reason so it’s justified to sweep this one under the rug finally.
1 Like
I don’t get why you’re so hell bent on telling good players of the spec that’s it’s so terrible when you don’t even play the spec.
You might have had some valid opinion on it if you a actually played the spec but you don’t.
Threads like this one is why devs will never read the forums.
Why are you so hellbent on invalidating my arguments. Why not actually address them. I know how the spec works. I’ve followed ever single change. I’ve played it. It doesn’t take a genius to understand how a spec works anymore since everything is pretty braindead now. It also doesn’t take a genius to understand that current Demo is full of wasted potential and flaws inherent to its lazy design.
2 Likes
We were not re-worked mid legion xpac. The full spec was changed… as it was changed in MoP… and WoD and BFA and to a lesser extent now… They didn’t randomly go “What have we done” and swapped it up mid xpac.
I did address them, You don’t actually play the spec in any fashion… you papercraft far too hard and the entire argument is “It could be better”