I know its… not realistic in the slightest but might make him actually try the spec.
Since I don’t have recent XP I doubt I’d be able to find partners as a Demo Lock. Besides, at least to me, doing something that I know I used to enjoy way more in the past just feels bad to me. The only other spec I’ve ever enjoyed (Feral) was also drastically changed in Legion (although not as much) and they keep making it worse every expansion. I quit SL like 3 weeks ago. Gonna stay away until either Demo or Feral get meaningful changes. Also can’t convince myself to play a different class at this point. None of them fit me. Honestly even if another class had a spec that played exactly like old Demo I wouldn’t play it because it wouldn’t be a Warlock. I just want to play my Warlock.
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Plus this way you get to be “correct” no matterwhat’s more experienced demonologists tell you because you’ve already convinced yourself on a piece of paper.
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Except you don’t.
You might want to play some past version you have locked in your head but that can be manipulated by so many things. Often when we look at past xpacs we glorify what they were without realizing how many stupid things existed at the same time… classic server and upcoming TBC is a prime example of that.
Feral is strong… you not enjoying that might again be playstyle related bc the class is fantastic in pvp.
I know it won’t come across as wonderful but you should just stop participating in these discussions or trying to give input because you are not even playing the spec/class and you are paper crafting ontop of papercraft ontop of a past idea of what you once had and you don’t have any experience or actual proof just this idea in your head of what’s viable and what’s not and enjoyment is completely subjective but ide never give a ounce of thought or attention to someone on something they don’t even participate in.
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I went on MoP and WoD private servers to go back and see if I was just looking back with rose tinted glasses. I enjoyed the spec just as much as I did back then. I think the design still holds up incredibly well and I wasn’t just imagining it being much better than it actually was in my head. The spec was genuinely just as good as I remembered it all these years later and in comparison to current day.
I don’t enjoy Feral because we lost all of our unique utility in the Legion iteration and 90% of our damage now is Ferocious bite instead of bleeds. We’re supposed to be the bleed spec. They also made the spec braindead with Sabertooth and it’s been a mandatory talent since then despite them repeatedly saying talents that simplify the rotation shouldn’t be better than talents that don’t.
Also my main argument wasn’t even that Demo isn’t viable. In the beginning it was one of my arguments, but I set that aside to discuss its actual objective flaws when you disagreed with me. You cannot possibly argue that current Demo doesn’t suffer from deep-seated design problems with its current iteration. You can argue that there are workarounds that allow it to function to an extent, but they’re still there. Old Demo had none of these flaws. The only flaws it had could have been easily fixed by simple number redistribution. Most of Demo’s current problems stem from the fact that it focuses so much on summoning demons instead of actually dealing damage. Our old design fit the Master Demonologist philosophy a lot better than current too. So sure you can invalidate my claims of whether its viable or not since I don’t have personal experience climbing with it recently, but everything else is valid.
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You don’t know demos problems… you don’t play demo.
These are all papercrafted assumptions. Pet AI issues was a gigantic part of what created issues for demo… and that is gone. Our current “Flaws” are actually pvp talent based more then anything. I dislike Tyrant being health % based so a lot of external modifiers can change things but Its not “The worst” The Deci Dbolt Build is based around The warlock using demons to empower him. Even as Tyrant spec Doom is one of my largest damage contributors and that is from me and not the pet.
We are a lot closer this xpac to Summoners then the Imp mothers we were in BFA.
If they made tyrant instant now that its health % based that would be awesome but you keep talking full scrap because you don’t actually play the spec.
The biggest unified gripe for demo was tyrant and the demons AI and not being able to swap them and that is nolonger a issue.
The second gripe was pet durability and thats far better, not perfect but far better and that problem leads into problem 3
The third was pet summon cast time… and that still exists… we deal with that and hopefully they change it.
Idk its just a lot of papercraft and assumptions… but when I come from the pvp side and I am like “Naw bro that’s not how it is” and then Lostlegion comes from the pve side and is like “Naw bro its not like you think it is” then maybe just maybe
Its not like you think it is on paper.
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I just don’t know why you want to try and get this absolute joke of a design to work when we can just get a revert or rework lol. Revert would be 10x easier since it worked fine before they’d just need to tune numbers. Rework would be 10x better for the spec since the current design is objectively bad. It takes from other specs, doesn’t fit its own playstyle, relies too much on AI for damage, relies too much on ramp mechanics, and isn’t utilizing the Demonologist theme as well as it could. There are so many different designs that would allow Demo to fit its own unique playstyle/niche and allow it to be much more solid. Think you’re forgetting we were reworked in Legion for no sensible reason so it’s justified to sweep this one under the rug finally.
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I don’t get why you’re so hell bent on telling good players of the spec that’s it’s so terrible when you don’t even play the spec.
You might have had some valid opinion on it if you a actually played the spec but you don’t.
Threads like this one is why devs will never read the forums.
Why are you so hellbent on invalidating my arguments. Why not actually address them. I know how the spec works. I’ve followed ever single change. I’ve played it. It doesn’t take a genius to understand how a spec works anymore since everything is pretty braindead now. It also doesn’t take a genius to understand that current Demo is full of wasted potential and flaws inherent to its lazy design.
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We were not re-worked mid legion xpac. The full spec was changed… as it was changed in MoP… and WoD and BFA and to a lesser extent now… They didn’t randomly go “What have we done” and swapped it up mid xpac.
I did address them, You don’t actually play the spec in any fashion… you papercraft far too hard and the entire argument is “It could be better”
I didn’t say mid expansion. I said in Legion. Demo was reworked entirely in Legion. Are we going to argue semantics now? I guess technically it was reworked in Legion pre-patch. My mistake. That doesn’t change the fact that we were completely changed for absolutely no valid reason. Also the change from WoD to Legion was far greater than any change prior. We still had similar core design philosophy from Wrath-WoD. Legion completely threw everything out the door in favor of a summoner playstyle for again, no good reason instead of just continuing iterating its already well established design.
Also ya, it could be much better. That’s a valid argument. Considering it was way better in the past, it’s even more valid. Almost every spec currently suffers from poor design in comparison to previous iterations. Demo just has it the worst. Class design has been lacking seriously since BfA.
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I’m not the one invalidating them. You don’t have a valid opinion because you don’t play the spec or even the class at max level.
Reading about changes and formulating an opinion doesn’t make it valid. It’s like going to culinary school and opening your own restaurant and then wondering why you’re going out of business.
WE WERE RE WORKED EVERY XPAC SINCE MOP
I swear I am talking to myself… I addressed it… in like the first response “They change us every xpac and this is the closest we have stayed to a prior xpac version of demo”
I am not saying its great I am saying its not new.
You should actually play the spec tho if you want to form a opinion on it.
Little known fact brother… every xpac we gain new demos we lose the ones before because people either like the changes or don’t like the changes because we constantly are being changed.
I loved MoP to me best version… WoD was completely different the MoP in burst in damage dealing in the way you killed… Legion complete different BFA COMPLETELY DIFFERENT but you have Demos that loved legion and didnt like mop and you have demos that loved WoD and didnt like Legion and you have BFA demos who hated WoD and Legion… its big the biggest issue is the community is never centralized with demo… If you are here long enough you will see people asking for all different stretches of what they want Demo to be… You cannot please everyone.
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The issue is Legion COMPLETELY changed EVERYTHING about the spec. From Wrath-Cata-MoP-WoD we still kept the same core design philosophy. Legion completely changed everything and completely scrapped 4 expansions worth of re-iteration for absolutely no reason. Also ya, this is the closest we’ve stayed to a prior xpack version of Demo. That’s awful. Devs should constantly iterate on design until they have it working as good as it can get. They clearly gave up on Demo since they for some reason decided to give Spriest big changes over Demo even though it was in a rough spot the entirety of BfA.
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Legion changed a lot of classes. Demo wasn’t exclusive to that.
Spriest got a rework because it was drastically needed. Of course spriest would get a rework as shadow is priests only dps spec compared to warlocks having three of them.
Also demo was the mythic plus spec for most of BFA if I remember correctly.
Its not even that its just historically so many different locks want so many different things from demo they won’t be able to make everyone happy. If they went back to MoP you would have the Legion demos or the Tyrant demos complaining or even WoD demos… Its just how its been… it sucks at times and we have rolled with the punches… its how demonology has been.
We all want better but that is the issue… Wow has never given us a central point of focus for demo… and when they do… it divides people on how “they feel” demo should be.
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I don’t need to thoroughly play a spec to understand it. The current specs have as much depth to them as a kiddie pool. Especially Demo. It doesn’t take a genius to be able to assess Demo’s current abilities and realize how little effort was put into creating synergy between the different aspects of the spec and predicting possible shortcomings.
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Actually you do. Considering gameplay at max level with gear is night and day difference over leveling.
You
Don’t
Have
A
Valid
Point.
Come on brother… that is the worst argument ever. It might work with some things but there are so many things in this game… that change with just the slightest couple of % either way or the slightest tweaks… and not actually testing things or seeing them for yourself invalidates everything.
When 9.0.5 dropped I did soo much testing… I crafted basically every PTR leggo… swapped gear ran different everything because that’s how this game is… and at the end of the day your gripes are because you don’t like the playstyle and that’s the same old argument that plenty of demos have used in the past.
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It’s pretty widely agreed upon, especially for Warlocks, that MoP had the best class design ever across the board. I think they should just revert everything to MoP. There is not a single spec currently that’s objectively better designed than it was in MoP and I stand by that. Not sure how anyone could argue differently. Not sure why anyone is defending the current spec. Sure you might enjoy it currently, but why does that matter? They ripped the Wrath-Cata-MoP-WoD design from old fans for no reason. I think it’d be fine if they went back and did it again to current players, especially considering again, MoP had better class design.
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