It give the rek proc and additional extra attack aswell
I am having Deja Vu. When the raid exp bug existed, many people repeatedly said to me “prove to me this wasn’t the case!”
When the demo shout bug existed, people demanded the same thing.
The layering bugs and exploits, the honor system bugs, etc. all show that, no, this game IS NOT an infaliable recreation of vanilla. Everything you see in the game IS NOT always how it occurred in actual vanilla. There are errors, there are mistakes here and there that need to be rectified in order for the game to be more in line with actual vanilla.
This is the last line of defence players will use to justify themselves using in game exploitative behaviours. ‘If you cant prove it never happened’.
We could go the other way on this.
‘Prove that it infact happened like so in Vanilla - something with a datestamp from 2004-2006 and not some private server remake’
Maybe you don’t realize how reckbomb works. It resets your swing timer. So you still need to use the startattack/stopattack macro to make it happen. That’s how you get all the hits at once. HoJ interaction works the same way.
Then why is it giving 6 attacks instantly instead of 5. Why is hoj giving 2 hits instantly instead of 1?
In fact if you dont attack something and it crits you a charge will be stored. Nothing about rek involves it proccing from your melee attacks, only crits you recieve.
Also - when you do it in active combat with a melee class you dont stack them - you abuse the stop/start for instant attacks
Lets simplify and forget about stacking reckoning for a moment. So if you are a pally and you’re fighting a mob while spamming the startattack/stopattack macro, you will attack twice for each crit you receive. The macro makes the attacks immediate, which is where the ‘exploit’ comes into play, but this is how it was then, and this is how it is now. I’m not debating whether or not this is fair, but this is how it was.
Let’s move onto HoJ. When it procs, you will get another attack and hit twice. When using the macro, these attacks are instant. Again, i’m not debating whether or not this is fair, but I don’t see how these interactions are any different. It is very likely that they share the same code, and as such, operate the same way.
The whole sit/stand thing is vastly overblown. If you use that in pvp, you will get wrecked. Remember, you can’t bubble or cast spells when you are sitting, so if you get stunned while sitting, you’re toast.
That right there. Show me proof that this happened in vanilla. Because being a sword specced arms warrior with hoj in 2004-2006, never once had i ever heard of a stop/start macro that gave an additional extra attack instantly.
hoj proc from that melee attack
extra instant attack from hoj
SWING TIMER starts again
and yet today with a macro’
hoj proc from that melee attack
instant melee attack
instant melee attack
swing timer restarts
The only time it ever gave an additional hit was if
swing timer starts again
HoJ/sword spec/wind fury could all proc each other.
The proof is reckbomb…those attacks all came instantly, same as now.
Eh, should prolly just keep it in game… Atleast pallies will be more useful
Wouldnt you believe what i just found on a pserver forum.
I’ll quote it.
Since /startattack doesn’t seem to exist in vanilla, I did a bit of googling and found a macro equivalent of it.
/run if not AtkSpell then for AtkSlot = 12,72 do if IsAttackAction(AtkSlot) then AtkSpell = AtkSlot;end;end;end; if not IsCurrentAction(AtkSpell) then UseAction(AtkSpell);end;
Only thing to note is that you NEED to have your Attack button somewhere on your bars, in order for this macro to work.
Those attacks all came instantly because they were stored hits. So as soon as you attacked anything, the stored hits would all go off at ther same time.
What this macro today is doing is storing a hit and using it at the same time due to spell batching, then granting an additional unprocced free hit because you exploited a bug with spell batching to make the game think it had a stored hit.
HoJ does not store a hit - it uses it instantly. The same is happening with rek. You are tricking the game into thinking it is storing the hit while at ther same time using it.
More comments from 2008 in regards to macro usage.
By [Menjina] [on 2008/06/08 at 2:02 PM] (Patch 2.4.1)
I think the reason for it is the internal cooldown on “startattack”, so that somestimes
the startattack is not ready yet while switching targets. The “stopattack” should
prevent you from it.
So we know that in 2008 /startattack had a cooldown.
OK WE STRUCK GOLD HERE
I’m going to recap on Reckoning and hopefully have the current sticky replaced since it’s filled with 35 pages of the same questions and answers over and over, and a lot of the builds and videos on the first post were pre 1.8. So petition to the GMs for a sticky plsss.
Ode to Mchammar for patronizing Reckoning, and props to him for the original post.
Let’s begin with the Talent description:
Reckoning (Rank 5)
Gives you a 100% chance to gain an extra attack after being the victim of a critical strike.
There are two main functions of reckoning:
The first, and by most accounts the intended function of reckoning, is to provide an instant counterattack to the targeted enemy whenever you get critted. This can be a spell crit or a melee crit. There are several situations where this will fail, namely if you are stunned or otherwise cc’d, and if the enemy is out of range.
Additionally, the spell at its present state is not working quite as intended. Instead of an instant strike, Reckoning will shorten the cooldown of your swing timer to 0… which means that after it triggers, despite how much time you lost until swinging, you have [Your weapon speed] seconds until your next hit. Ideally, the instant attack would be independant of your regular swings, but this is not the case. Still, reckoning will provide some boost to DPS in all situations, although how far through your swing timer you are when you get crit will have a very significant effect.
Reckoning bombs are what makes the difference between a “pretty good” talent, and an outstanding one. The term “Reckoning Bomb” is used to denote the instantaneous consecutive swings granted when a Paladin has “Reckoning Charges” saved. Here’s how that works:
The first and most important condition of a Reckoning bomb is the Paladin MUST HAVE HIS AUTOATTACK DISABLED. Do this by using “t” to toggle it on and off, or just leftclick anywhere on the screen.
The next order of business is to get critted. Just standing there is a perfectly good way to do this, but this step will vary greatly by situation.
The last thing to do is to enable autoattack, by right-clicking or pressing “t”, or your attack button. Done properly, you will attack the enemy multiple times in the space of a second, hopefully creating a significant dent in his life.
The max amount of bonus attacks you can get through Reckoning is 4.
Seals and Reckoning
All seals can proc off Reckoning, and multiple times. It’s sometimes useful to activate Wisdom or Light to get a lot of bonus hp or mana back, or use Righteousness for some bonus damage. Using Justice may be redundent, as it will just cause them to go immune to the 2 second stun.
The only exception is Seal of Command. You can only have one Seal of Command proc within a Reckoning bomb, and rightfully so, as Reckoning would easily be the most devistating skill in the game if you could get every hit to proc a Seal of Command.
A Short (And Subjective) History (Thanks Nidhogg)
Reckoning originally reset your swing timer + gave you the extra attack if you were in melee range. This was nice, but did nothing if they were behind you (rogue) or at range. There was a bug with this, where if you had a Reckoning attack but were stunned, your swing timer was bugged, and you would not be able to attack until you were crit again (to fire your reckoning off).
They patched this, and gave it its second incarnation. This was the current form minus the charges. This was the most fun you could have as a Paladin to date in my opinion. Unlimited stores equalled insta-shotting anyone with enough charges stored up. The fix was to give Paladins a way to still have the talent be useful (instead of useless by being stunned from behind) and also to fix the attack swing bug the original had.
Well Blizz didn’t like this new method of killing people. Sure it was situational, but it had adverse affects on PvE content. You could, if devoted enough time, one shot the outdoor Raid bosses. There are instances (I dont have the links) of a Paladin getting Kazzak to 50% and even killing him in one swing.
Blizz realized that they had struck gold with this talent fix but needed to fine tune it, so they added a reckoning limit, and voila. They should go one step further and explain the conditions it fails and call it working as intended… but whatever.
What You Want Weapon Wise
You want whatever your using to be as slow as possible to make the best use of instant attacks, since Reckoning isn’t normalized damage. A Sticky out now that shows the best SoC damage on weapons is a rough showing of the best Reckoning weapons out there, but it’s for sure, the higher the max damage, and almost retroactively, the slower, the better.
You’re the one claiming there’s stuff out there. With the claim must come the evidence, you’re the one talking out his a** rn.
Or perhaps they had a video with the thread, and conversation keeps breaking out so it keeps getting put at the top of the recent column? You see one thing and think something else for some reason… Need to work on that.
Literally this, bud.
More accusations, everything you say has no merit due to your ignorance…
Oh, look, and undead rogue crying over being beat in PVP.
Dude, you’re a human complaining about rogues? Um…
As seen here, no macro was used. This is pserver rubbish and never worked that way in Vanilla.
Datestamp from 2006.
Tells you to stack charges and not to attack anything at all. ‘Target yourself if you need to’.
In regards to the actual sit/stand proccing of crit ractive abilities - Can I sit down to force a crit and gain a charge?
Charges will not generate off auto attacks or npc attacks by trying to sit down and force a crit. However, ability crits from physical abilities such as Sinister Strike, Hamstring, Auto-shot, Aimed shot, etc will generate a charge if you’re sitting.
This was later proven to infact happen (as seen in the vid). Upon Classic release Blizz implimented a change. That change is -
Using a work around to get a proc on something that is simply not an intended game mechanic is otherwise known as an exploit. You want rek stacks - do it the old school way where you stand there, not attacking and wait to be crit by whatever is attacking you. The amount of time it takes to get a 4 stack or ‘rekbomb’ balances it out.
Oh look, a human priest defending a game exploit.
I see the time old tradition of p#ssing and moaning about Paladins is still going strong, even 15 years later. How I do get a kick out of people complaining that a class which is already so gimped in the damage department actually has something that gives them offensive capability (even if it is a big meme). Do people really just want them to be strictly healers? I see Rogues globaling people in a single stunlock, warlock fears just never, ever, ever breaking even with a million dots ticking away, warriors 2 shotting clothies yet all that stuff is just fine aka high skill pvp bro get gud etc. But this?? Nah has to be a bug pls nerf asap blizz.
You meaning complaining anorak night / exploit? You seriously want to set the precedent of using bug exploits as a means of balance changes?
Gotta say at this point if it keeps those knickers of yours in a twist, then yes absolutely.
Its not just about paladins. Its about extra attacks in general.
Unless they use in game exploit for a 100% chance to proc an extra attack and then using another in game exploit at the same time to have that 1 instant attack become 2 instant attacks.
What should be intended game play is 1-2 occasional melee attacks. By exploiting they are getting 2-4 instant melee attacks every time they are struck in melee combat.
#nochanges, Classic is supposed to have warts and all.