Anyone left that thinks this is true?
9 Likes
I wouldnât believe it for a second.
They completely annihilated warriors with a barrage of nerfs after this RWF, granted theyâve done that to us seemingly most tiers we performed near the top, especially if double DPS warrior was featured. Loved getting nerfed to pieces after HFC, Nighthold, before SFO, DF S4, and then NP. Honestly, itâs a Christmas miracle we werenât destroyed immediately after Sanctum of Domination, or Amirdrassil in the past couple of expansions, but we definitely paid the price in SL S3, and DF S4.
When major class tuning was announced, I eagerly went to look and Iâm still in total shock not even 1 mention. I guess they just donât know what to do. Itâs not like we canât complete all 10s and move on up into 12s. I guess Blizzard is happy with us being terrible mythic+ tanks but very good raid tanks.
Iâm kind of sad though. Iâve hit the mythic+ pug wall after completing all 11s with most parses at 98+. But I get insta declines when I apply to 12s. I have to run my own key or no invites.
And yes, Iâm now spinning up my prot pally and just might make this my main going forward this xpac. Even if they arenât s tier, they are almost always a tier or better.
My suggestion, make brewmaster a support class and be done with it. Stagger as a mechanic in a support role could be interesting.
2 Likes
And the thing is, when you have a good brewmaster tank in 10s and 11s and below, it feels really good. They donât feel squishy, they get lots of disrupts, they toss out extra heals to the DPS when they need it, and you never really worry about them going âsplatâ on a trash pull (canât say the same about Paladin)
And brewmaster is infinitely more fun to play than Paladin. Sending whirling hammers around you so you can keep your tier set going between packs, just to drop down a consecration doesnât feel compelling.
But hey, at least weâre good in raids.
1 Like
Brewmaster is the only tank in the game that does not have increased resource generation in AoE. Obviously increased energy regen would just be weird, but there are options that already existed in the game at one point or another that would help tremendously.
- Boiling Brew. Breath of Fire does a small amount extra damage and has a chance to summon a healing sphere. Helps with self healing and stagger clearing via Tranquil Spirit.
- Firestone Walkers. Breath of Fire reduces the cooldown of Fortifying Brew by 2s per target hit, to a maximum of 6s. This was a Legion legendary that would do exactly that, give us better scaling itno AoE. It might soft-force SalâSalabimâs Strength for M+, but before this tier set and the additional KS modifier we were using that almost exclusively anyways.
- Hellfire Citadel Tier, at least in itâs current in-game representation, grants 1s of CDR on Ironskin Brew (now CB) and Purifying Brew each time you gather a healing sphere. Itâs small CDR, but would add up with our increased healing sphere generation from Boiling Brew as well as the existing Gift of the Ox and Spirit of the Ox.
- Keg of the Heavens I donât know if this is exactly how the tier set worked as I did not obtain my 4pc in SL as Brew was an alt then, but the max health and healing should scale off target count as KS does more in larger pulls. This also has the benefit of having unique interactions with each hero talent. Chop off the damage amp as KS doesnât need yet another modifier and tack on the current 4pc bonus of BoK having a chance to reset KS and make it cost no energy and this is capstone worthy.
With these added to the talent tree, ideally replacing existing bloat talents that are either mandatory, never chosen or only chosen for pathing, it would make Brewmaster feel significantly better in larger pulls. Ideally they could add Legionâs Fundamental Observation to make Zen Med worth pressing in AoE and give us another meaningful cooldown, do some buffs to Elixir of Determination as it got gutted, fix Niuzao and split Bob and Weave and BOB (having both would not be game breaking in the slightest as far as I can see, maybe Iâm underestimating, but it feels like an arbitrary choice node as is), weâd be in a pretty solid spot. Brewmaster is viable as is, in that the spec is timing title range keys, but its certainly more of a âsurviving not thrivingâ scenario as-is.
4 Likes
I got curious and went and checked this. As it stands, there is not a single US Brewmaster monk who has made the cut for a title right now. There are only 7 total monks across all regions who have.
Surprisingly BDK is actually the worst, with only 3 in title range(if alliance), followed by ~10 or so druids. horde has quite a bit lower cutoff, but most top players are alliance for the racials.
And with the prot pally nerfs it might just be over for everyone now.
1 Like
I think it is. Quazii isnât even playing anymore, currently switched to Baldurâs gate. Yoda wrote a tweet basically stating that fact too.
As posted in another post, here is a Video of an MDI in China where Brewmaster was seen for I believe one of the only times, for you guys to watch, a +9 Mist, at 2:32:00.
https://www.youtube.com/live/EGE35AA2a_k?si=xacreLM06g1XbYcO
(Link to post : Brewmaster in a MDI)
As I myself said, you guys will check the video⌠but you wonât check the video.
In the first SECONDS of the pull, VDH is already at over 1.5M DPS, then about 10s in, heâs at 4M dps with over 1.25M HPS.
On the other hand, BrM whoâs doing the same pull in about the same time is doing barely 1.25M DPS and not even 600k HPS.
1/4th the damage, half the healing, even less survivability. BrM is in serious needs of help.
The PEAK dps VDH is getting before his pack shrinks is about 4.5M
The PEAK dps BrM is getting while his pack isnât even shrinking is 2M, and that takes so long to reach that VDH at that point is already back down to 3M, about to go on another pull.
Another thing, yes the BrM was the last to die, but he took SO MUCH DAMAGE that healer had to focus him in order for him to live, that kills the team. Even the commentators couldnât see that but itâs literally in plain sight.
Yet DH is the second most underwhelming tank in the current meta⌠and itâs doing 4x the damage and twice the healing, while barely taking any damage. This is sad man.
4 Likes
They also have lowest HP, armor, and dps.
None of their capstone nodes are even selected.
Like, why is everything so bad for Brew?
4 Likes
Every capstone node sucks.
Brewmasterâs tree design is odd. The âcapstonesâ are actually a tier above the final talents, being Ox Stance, Stormstoutâs Last Keg, Blackout Combo and Weapons of Order/PTA. All of these are very good (except PTA, but thatâs another issue). The talents below that are upgrades to these capstones. Kind of being semantic here, and I 100% agree with what you mean. Frankly, the sub-capstones should all just be folded into Ox Stance and WoO/PTA. None of them are really strong enough to be worth considering besides maybe Chi Surge, but even then that really only feels worth the point with Shado-Pan.
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The only reason that Ox Stance was split up into 3 nodes was because they had a quota on how many bubbles there had to be in the tree. 
4 Likes
Vengeance dh is made for dps who want to get tank queues.
That aside, brm is just chock full of buttons and none of them feel like they do anything lol like how much does celestial brew shield again?
1 Like
I do personally agree with this. The problem with Brewmaster is two fold:
- Thereâs no reason to bring one, you need a group that is willing to take a tank that brings
- no utility
- no buffs
- does rather low snap threat
- does lower damage than other tanks
- and requires a bit more healing that is hard to understand because ox orb stacks are not communicable with the healer
- I wrote a weakaura for this if any static brew/healer pair wants it.
- The season is borked for everyone frankly. There are fewer keys posted than ever before. The difficulty curve is high and groups will only take meta or people that seem well over qualified for keys.
Additionally party buffs will be treated as contentious:
- Guardian druid brings MOTW increasing survivability.
- Prot paladins bring just a lot, reduced damage for the group tons of stops brez large group heals dispelâŚ
- Prot Warriors bring shouts and the least attention needed from healers.
- DH brings stops and Chaos Brand that is better even for most melee specs than Mystic Touch is.
- DK brings Brez and AMZ which is very strong for mechanics like the 2nd boss in Dawnbreaker for example.
We just wont get into contentious key ranges with the viable qualification alone.
I think in DF S4 there were zero world that qualified. I think Blizzard should change the requirements of this achievement as relies on their horrible ability and track record of balancing classes.
2 Likes
Only 6 brewmasters are in title range.
3 in China
3 in the EU
None in the US.
Right now title range is all 15+. Itâs likely that it will be pushed even higher as gear gets better, but even still Iâm not optimistic.
In contrast, there are:
Prot Pally: 490
Prot War: 47
Guardian Druid: 18
Veng DH: 20
Blood DK: 6
2 Likes
I wouldnât be surprised at this point if the BrM algorithms were password protected by a Dev who quit without notice out of spite and they cannot access them⌠so while theyâre trying to quietly negotiate with him while to regain access, they just pretend they donât know the spec exists.
3 Likes
Nothing to see here - nothing wrong here - just keep your head in the sand
1 Like
Honestly at this point at the highest levels prot paladins are the only serious choice and everyone else is just playing whatever class they like most. Thereâs only been 1 season where brew was arguably the best, and even then they werenât dominant like every other tank has been for some seasons. That time was due to damage during massive aoe pulls, which arenât really something you do in pugs.
I donât know that brew needs to have more utility, some classes will always just have less, but I donât enjoy feeling like the squishiest tank with the worst sustain with the worst damage on top of that.
3 Likes
Iâd be okay with being the highest damage tank again. That was fun, back in MOP doing 2x the DPS of DPS due to vengeance stacking, and then giving myself an infinite shield.
2 Likes