^^That and more. It damages the overall health of the game.
To those who leave losing BGs:
Losing sucks, sure.
Ending your day with little to nothing to show for your efforts sucks, sure.
It makes you frustrated. Frustration build within you and you end up with bad feelings about your experience in the game. Sure!
So what do you do about it? You have a choice of 3 options that I can think of:
Stick it out, find something to work on, like surviving a 1v2 for longer than you used to. Practice your skills. You get better by facing tougher odds than you do by just breezing through. That is, if you have the mindset to do it. You can’t be weak and whiny about it. Toughen up and get in there!
You can be one of those useless jerks that sits around and complains or calls everyone “Bad” etc. May you die alone and unloved in life.
You can spread the frustration around like Typhoid Mary on not just your team mates but the ones who get their time wasted by backfilling for your little Nancy-boy self.
being a 2 is bad for the game but being a 3 makes you a problem. A problem that needs to be solved one way or another. There’s plenty of ideas on how. I would like to at least see some of them tried out.
The current PvP gearing system is garbage — that’s true. But I disagree that there was value for losses back in the day. The thing is, back in the day, wins held more value because players were working toward a very specific gear goal that the players had 100% control over with their earned points.
The devs need to learn that players like having control over their characters and the future of their characters. Maybe getting something that I want feels a lot less motivating than knowing that I will get something that I want if I work toward it. Tangible goals hold far more value than something that seems out of reach. The RNG going on right now in all aspects of the game is mentally burning out players. It becomes a “Who cares?” or “Why bother?” Of course, not everyone may feel this way, and some may feel this way only sometimes, but I personally believe people can grind out things, even PvP currency, if they have a goal they can 100% work toward.
Blizzard should re-introduce a bonus daily for your first win that gives gold and bonus Conquest points.
So you choose if you want to do an epic or random BG. Win either an epic or random BG and you gain the conquest bonus and the daily bonus conquest with gold.
Your response was accurate. People who will figure out a way to play half-heartedly to avoid the deserter buff. But they will watch TV as they do, because they know they are trapped in a time-wasting loss. And the best thing they can do, to avoid wasting so much time, is not do anything to prolong the battle. You know…like heal. Or do dmg.
Account-wide deserter buff is a bad idea, that will engender bad-behavior.
At least when I leave a BG, you get another player who might not mind being stuck in your loss.
I happen to love PvP. I just don’t have time to waste when there is no reward of Conquest Points. PvP is gear based, and CP is the only thing that matters. Especially since you can’t fix a bad slot at a vendor, but instead are stuck with whatever Blizzard gives you, often something not as good as what you have slotted. All while you hope the Chest reward is at least useful.
So account-wide-deserter debuff = just removing people who love PvP from BG’s. But hey, I can do raids or mythics or run errands. You’ll just have fewer people queuing for BG’s. And I’m sure some will get mad if PvP is the only thing they like, and they’ll drop their subscriptions (which is why Blizz will never do it).
Personally, I love PvP. Said it before. Bunch of trolls tried to whine that I don’t. But that’s just not true. Even with 3 years off from WoD to BFA’s release, I’ve got 13,838 BG’s on all my toons over 100. 3713 are in AV alone (I used to do 12-16 hour days on “AV honor Weekends”) It is by far, my favorite BG.
Blizzard made the game gear-centric, took out the vendors and has yet to address the imbalance in the AV map. What do you expect?
A few people noted that AV is horde-biased, and it’s true. (One easy fix would be to alternate starting points, north and south. But I get that that doesn’t fit with the lore. However I am sure the Ally would love to have the IBGY/IBT choke point ). But even though it’s imbalanced, I still love AV, and still play it. When I queue for an epic BG, it’s the one I hope pops.
But just imagine if people like me stopped queuing on the Alliance side for AV. How much longer would the Horde have to wait in that queue? I’m betting it’s already pretty long, since casual Ally players have probably queued for epic BG’s much due to the change in the meta and the increase in horde victories due to IBT defense.
And since Ally can’t seem to learn to play defense at SHGY/IWB, our choke point, to counteract the change in the meta with the IBGY/IBT defense that slows the ally side down, I don’t expect it to change any time soon. Or the Hordes wait time to get any shorter.
Which brings me back to the original point. I’d STAY in a BG if I was getting at least some Return-on-Investment of my time. People mentioned long games/comebacks as part of the best part of their BG memories. I do to. I’ve been in at least 5 AV’s that were within 20 points. And I remember 3 that were within 5 points, 2 won by the Horde, 1 by the Ally. So I don’t disagree about how fun they are.
…which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you should be rewarded Conquest Points for the hour-long BG you ended up losing.
Blizzard made the game gear-centric. Blizzard took out the PvP vendors so you can’t even fix your worst gear first.
All Blizzard needs to do, is reward some CP for people staying in a BG. As the Gnome vendor says, “time is money friend.”
You’re just wrong. 1) I’m not bad at BG’s. I have 13838 of them to prove it. Tons of fun. Team player. Good at using chat to suggest strats to people who might not PvP that much. Not a chat-whiner.
2)“This is a good thing because now they are because now they are forced to deal wtih their shortcomings…”
Oh, you mean my “shortcoming” like my limited amount of time? Because that’s so true! lol Since I’m always surprised if I’m not one of the top 2 healers in AV (pleasantly), and really good at defending towers and defending the (important) GY’s, I’m pretty sure you must be talking about someone else on the PvP side of things.
More importantly, is your shortcoming. The fact that you can’t even “personally foresee” the people who are bad at BG’s growing or lessening". So you think people who start out bad at BG’s, never get better. This really displays your lack of imagination, or ability to think clearly.
Obviously bad PvP players get better. Obviously people who like BG’s get better at BG’s over time if they want to, put in the practice and do the research. So what you can’t "personally foresee", is how the game-theory aspect of this works out.
Ever heard of “Prisoner’s Dilemma”? “Dictator’s Game”? Because I don’t think you understand why not giving people a Return-on-Investment on their time matters. And I also don’t think you understand the game-theory consequences of making a deserter debuff an hour long and account wide.
The behavior that will engender is people playing at 30% capacity in PvP. Guarding flags they don’t need to guard. Running headlong into an enemy once in a while, then delaying rez at a GY. All the tricks AFKers used to do when it was REALLY bad years ago. Before they gave us the tool to kick those people who hid on the edges of the map.
But your way, just means those people who want to leave and not waste their time, will just play at 50% capacity. Or less.
They don’t want to waste TIME. Since the deserter debuff, as you imagine it, will be an hour, the best they can do, is throw the match. To waste less of their TIME. What will your system cause them to do?
They will heal less. Do less dmg than they can. Because they want the game to end. They can’t AFK out. Because of your deserter debuff being accountwide/60 minutes. But they know they are not going to win. And they dont’ have a lot of time. And they want this BG to end, so they might get out and try to get a win. For Conquest Points. Before they run out of TIME.
The game-theory consequences of your system, isn’t what happens currently: I leave, and a player enters. One who might want to stay, who maybe has all of the TIME in the world, win or lose.
Your system would cause people, to throw the game, as quickly as possible. So they avoid the deserter debuff. And they waste as little TIME as possible.
(“Time is money friend”-- anonymous Gnome)
I suggested other options. Let the losing team up-convert their honor into some Conquest Points. Or give the losing side 10-15% of the amount of Conquest points the winning side gets.
Ultimately, peoples time is valuable. Asking them to squander it in an obvious loss is not understanding human nature, or the game-theory consequences of the current system Blizzard has designed:
can’t control the equipment you get
only Conquest Points matter
you only get Conquest Points in a win
in epic BG’s in particular, you spend a LOT of time in a loss.
…Blizzard has sown. So shall they reap, until they make the system better. Human nature is what it is. And time is money. (or Conquest Points if you’re lucky. )
I think I agree with the idea that only getting conquest for a win is a bad thing. Make it far less for a loss, sure, but give me something for my time that let’s me progress to the larger goal of getting better gear and getting that general feeling getting stronger, even if it is very slowly done. I would also like to see a chance for crafting mats do drop like hydrocor’s and so on. I know every once in a long while you can get a box that has some general mats in it if you win but it doesn’t feel rewarding enough for the time. my 2 cents
I do have a Shaman alt, but he’s VandeGraaf, so different name.
Just dinged a mage to 120, so I tried a new way to gear her up after doing WQ’s a bunch. Given the low return on my time investment in BG’s the past months, I decided to gear her with LFR instead of PvP like my other toons.
Had so much fun, I did all the raids (other than the lowbie one…Uldir?) on all of my 120’s. So you MIGHT have seen me there on Absinthe the past weeks, healing.
Trying out a new foot-pedal (by “Stinky” lol. But don’t let the name fool you, it’s a really great USB foot-pedal!) and different mouse to streamline macros/keybinds for PvP, so I haven’t been doing PvP until I get the new muscle memory in place.
A lot of these guys have this narrative that goes something like this:
When in reality what often happens is you are one of the (few) good players on the team, and at some point it becomes obvious that the team is bad through no fault of your own (example: your teammates decide to rush Galv right out of the starting gate, despite being told not to).
So you make the smart, correct, logical decision to leave the OBVIOUS loss and not waste any more of your time with such baddies. There’s nothing “wrong” with this, contrary to what white-knight types might say
And of course, it’s just a video game, it’s supposed to be entertainment… so calling for “punishments” is pretty bizarre imo. We don’t play video games to be “told what to do” or to be “punished”, the main goal is to have fun (whatever that means for you).
Oh good lord, the number of games I had to resist leaving the second I see 20 Ally at Galv at the start of AV. I will say, one time (out of 10, 20?) whoever was on offense knew what they were doing, and we won.
But 19x out of 20, it’s people who I am pretty sure haven’t done AV since 2013 or something like that.
If you felt a mental-high five a second ago, when I saw you had typed that about Galv, that’s why lol
(* I do stay in those games. Until we’re down 2 towers and still don’t have IBGY. I always take the time to type something like “Guys, Galv is great to kill when we have IBGY, and are stuck in a turtle going south…but all you did was let the Horde get ahead on towers”.
Honestly, most of those games, the 20 bored Horde in IBT come wipe them on Galv, and it ends up aa worse loss than the usual 1-2 tower loss by squandering lots of time not taking IBT, before they take IBGY first *)
I actually had it happen tonight (again). Seems to be happening more and more lately, I don’t know where these Galv jokers come from
My second to last epic of the night had like 18-19 Alliance run straight into Galv immediately … of course you can probably guess how the match played out
Hey, one non-sequitur (PvP related at least) There is a 6v6 tournament for BG’s run by GCD. First round was today. Second round will be tomorrow at 1pm PST. 6 teams left. Really fun to watch.
EU will be next week. I think Thursday and Friday. Here is the link to the post in the forums:
Venruki and Healingstat and Elbarath(sp?) were casters. A few of the AWC players were on the teams too, Milkmanx and…Seth Curry. Well worth watching! (might be on VoDs soon too )
Dat necro.
When people respond to threads a month later to me I can’t even remember what the conversation was about. Bleh.
I’m fixing to go to bed so this might be jumbled.
You seem to take my post as a personal attack and see fit to respond with how excellent you are and how much of an asset you are to your BG teams and trying to use that as an excuse to exempt you from consequences that everyone should face for leaving a BG. I can not trust you are any of the things you say. Not that I don’t think you are fine at BGs you probably are. I just have no proof and it has no bearing on if you should receive the debuff or not. you are not special or different than anyone else.
The shortcoming you are currently defending is one of patience you lack.
No I don’t forsee people who afk in BGs getting better. This is not a question of gear or skill that can improve overtime this is a question of personal choice made when you bail on a team/give up/only care about winning for conquest instead of taking part in the actual game.
You already get a return in investment. You get honor already and you get conquest on a win. Your greed for more than that does not entitle you to bail without consequence.
People already do this. It’s not very common and when they do I report them afk or I lifegrip them out of the GY into horde packs until they learn to stop being a baby for dying in pvp. The mentality is still beyond me.
I think people throwing matches is akin to a child throwing themselves on the ground in an angry fit. It’s about as useful.
The debuff is there to make you think twice and continue the match so that even while losing people can still fight each other on an even ground and have fun. Even turn games around into wins.
People will need to get over the fact that they will lose games. That does not mean the game can be less fun while you can still fight.
If you don’t want to waste time don’t join into a team game that is time intensive.
I don’t think the majority of people are as childish and useless as you perceive. Call me optimistic.
Again, the debuff is there to notify you of the consequences of joining a team game and then leaving your team at a disadvantage.
You joined to pvp. Try and not to leave and punish your team for your own impatience.
I agree the gear lotto needs to change. It’s boring and demoralizing and makes their content droughts worse. The gear is also not as worthwhile to gather. That does not mean you afk and ruin other peoples good time.
They tried giving currency to players for losses. People just used honor buddy and afked. Rather people afk out, then sit in the gy jumping every 10 seconds.
Perhaps late to this thread (?, TY necro), but great point.
Separately, to people who say “remove conquest from BGs” you like to think you’re ‘funny’ but you’re not.
You’re the kind of people who think just because you play a game a certain way, it would be fine if things were removed, or punished, for those who don’t play it the way you do. TBVH I wonder if you’re even capable of learning a better, reasonable attitude toward this being a game for all sorts of folks to enjoy.
How’s the view from that pedestal you’ve put yourself on? who are you to judge other players?
There is a single path to gearing for pvp and that path only pays off if I win. Give me one good reason to stay for a beating that will reward me absolutely nothing of value. How you feel is not a good reason. Your time is no more valuable than mine.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
). But even though it’s imbalanced, I still love AV, and still play it. When I queue for an epic BG, it’s the one I hope pops.![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
![:rofl:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")