But we’re not talking about a pure zerg situation where noone plays D.
When horde play D the defensive position at IB is so much stronger than at SH that horde can at will force an alliance turtle and when they do they have a massively strong chokepoint at IBT to ever stop alliance from getting south. And that determines the entire rest of the game.
WoW - this is the most amazing thread I have ever read created by a Horde player. Yes the AV map is tilted heavily in favor of the Horde and yes Blizzard is staffed by a bunch of Horde loving fools.
While this thread is correct, nothing will change and alliance will still continue to lose AV. Such is life and I don’t expect Blizzard to do anything about it.
Ah, no. Not even remotely.
The alliance meta is a result of being spoiled by short queues and past zerg wins. They literally roll over at the slightest threat to a long game, and there is abundant evidence that much of the team simply opts out completely from any participation beyond auto running into walls and honor leeching.
Of course the remainder of alliance who actually want to seriously play the BG get upset. Quite understandably. The blame does not lie at the feet of horde, but solidly in the defeatist “meta” that alliance players are perpetuating.
I understand that, but at the same time, in a pug bg that kind of thing (the IB GY situation) is a double-edged sword.
Why? Because pugs are disorganized, and many players rarely focus on the most efficient action instead chosing to just go off wherever they see fighting or a mob of players or towards another objective.
Yes, there are possible chokepoints on the map where a highly disciplined team can set up powerful defenses, but that isn’t one where I think it’ll turn into a constant irritant after the cave is moved south.
The thing about IB GY is that very often you see horde rezzers just rush north to find something else to do on the front lines or fight in the field of strife, even if horde is being pushed back (which typically only happened against premades or if the horde had a disastrous group composition like all DPS, no healers). How many times do you think I’ve seen 3-4 people at IBT and said something in chat and then 7-8 people rez at IB GY and go north instead of heading to IBT.
Right now, everything in AV comes down to the SH GY/IB GY/spawn distances. That’s what’s deterministic in AV right now. That’s what needs to be fixed right now.
But that’s the exact issue, in a pug map imbalances aren’t masked they determine the flow of the game.
And no moving the starting caves back would actually make the map imbalance worse as it would force more horde to D at IB.
That right there I believe to be the crux of the matter. The constant stream of defeatist cheerleaders on the forum have created such a losing mentality. Day in and day out they have beaten their own faction into submission, so much so it seems like they are actually enemy alts just performing subterfuge. Its a constant barrage of “why bother”, and “just let them win” and a constant litany of how their plight is all the fault of the enemy and blizzard themselves. Alliance are their own worst enemies.
I really don’t think that’s the case because right now that specific issue rarely comes into play compared to the more basic problem of cave rezzers rushing to recap IB GY on the horde side.
In matches where the alliance get 10-15 to IB GY and take it, they’re 60-90 seconds behind the horde at SH GY. And horde rezzers can rush to IB GY along with some people coming back off the front line to ensure a recap on IB GY. That to me is the bigger problem right now.
I think it’d be an improvement to have more situations where the alliance have 20-30 near IB GY and 20-30 horde defending that spot. At least that’d add some different flavor to the game than the current meta where 40 horde are near Bal and have the option of wiping the alliance and grabbing SH GY simultaneously.
But none of that changes the fact that IBGY is simply easier to defend than SHGY. IBGY has a freaking back door rezzers can user to escape and flank attacker…a
AV 1.12 was a huge, huge mistake.
But hey, Ion and Brack got their “clarity”.
If they change the horde starting cave they might as well add reinforcements.
That was done because when reinforcements were put in, the NPCs rewarded reinforcement points, making it actually matter how quickly they were killed.
I see players on both sides claiming that the map favors the other faction…
But does it really matter? If one side is winning more than 95% of the time, the game IS going to die. Alliance might have worse players, but for the sake of game health, you really shouldn’t want such a one-sided matchup.
At some point you will break them and they’ll stop queuing. Reading these forums, it seems like that’s what the Horde wants.
Even most premades can’t win.
The Horde is blinded by the PTSD that they have from our top ranker queues winning in 7 mins.
At this point they would rather the game die out of spite than actually have a balanced matchup.
Yes, but in this specific case it does matter that the map is tilted towards the current horde meta and alliance can’t counter it.
Within 10 days of premades ending, horde has reached the point that 98-99% of matches are horde wins and the other 1-2% are games where the horde has 0 healers and alliance has 10 (that’s my guess but I can’t imagine another winning condition for alliance).
Ultimately, in the current gaming era where min-maxing is taken to the extreme, what would have been a small imbalance in vanilla is now a 99% winning strategy because that’s how current gaming metas evolve.
And that’s why the cave position has to be changed now. Anybody who’s played dozens of AV matches the past week has to be able to understand what I’ve been talking about in these threads; even horde players should see the problems here.
I agree with you completely.
I’m just taking it one step further and saying that - even if there was no imbalance - a 98% win rate is unacceptable in any competitive activity.
Yeah I get that, we’re seeing the same problem in WSG as well now due to queue dodging premades.
it’s just a complete mess. Blizzard needs to fix both WSG and AV. Hopefully sooner rather than later because it’s clear that people will stop queuing if they see no hope of at least reasonably fair bgs.
Any Horde player who tries to say that Alliance isn’t at a disadvantage or that Alliance players are worse than Horde players need to see a doctor for mushbrain.
If this were true then the Alliance wouldn’t be losing 95% of the games. It’s amazing how Alliance has all this stuff in their favor yet cannot win. It’s statistically impossible. Yet facts must be hard for some people to understand.
I strongly agree with this. Thank you for your post. Hopefully, Blizzard will notice this, too.