in his mind that doesnt make sense. to be punished you must have done something against some rules.
his stance that being auto squleched before any GM interaction isnt a punishment.
to that i say tell that to the guy who gets wrongly put in jail and serves 10 years till his lawyer proves the cop was a racist sob who put the fix and planted evidence on the man.
sure thats a bit extreme but it fits.
well i agree with that concept and understand what you are saying, there are differences in a lot of systems between the 2 versions, enough that warrants discussion, not everyone that is speaking out about this are the type that is going to be run around breaking the CoC, they have legitimate complaints about it.
Having the threshold for the squelch be higher, or have it function differently in Classic is not out of the question, people who legit break the rules will get punished just the same and when they do, the best they could hope for is a 24 hr chat ban.
im saying keep right click report. add to it even for it to auto ignore (either temp till you relog or full on ignore).
keep the 24 hr silence for people found offending the CoC. keep that it doubles each time after that.
just put it to a GM first. at least that way we would have a little more peace of mind.
and my little addendum actively punish people who falsely flag. give a warning first then do the same 24 hr then double after that to them.
There is punishment for false reporting, we really have to stop even trying to suggest there isn’t, and honestly that is the real issue, mob rule, if they did came out and clarified what can happen if you do then none of this would be an issue, or be much less of one. But that is what you said anyway,lol.
Wait. A squelch, which is a temporary chat mute, isn’t a punishment, but a GM upheld silence (which is a temporary chat mute) IS a punishment? Am I getting gaslighted here?
Which makes it all that more important to stay within the CoC.
Which we can’t and don’t.
A squelch is not a punisment.
It’s akin to being pulled over and investigated.
The punishment comes when the GM reviews it.
Actually the more you guys hype this up the better it sounds for classic.
People won’t be so quick to be edgelords because there are real consequences to your behavior.
As far as people abusing this?
Well guess what it works for that too.
Go ahead have your guild mass report someone who stole “your” mob tag.
Get your guild a nice vaca over something petty.
I’m sure people will flock to this and put their classic playtime in jeopardy just to flag someone that someone else disagrees with. LOL
This is where this fear mongering falls on its face.
It works both ways and you guys are completely ignoring that.
This may seem like semantics but I do want to clarify on this.
Squelch - Is like a silence, but is only temporary. Lasts until a GM reviews the incident. I wouldn’t imagine it’s a long period. GM reviews and either drops the report or moves to a silence. These are triggered by hitting enough reports in a specific time frame.
Silence - The chat limitations are in effect, limiting most of your conversation ability but there are a few exceptions of it. First one hits in at a day, then doubles each subsequent one. Can be appealed, with appealed silences removing themselves from the double-multiplier. These are only issued after a human reviews the case. (Not automated)
Correct, Blizzard will only be vague about it so people won’t be encouraged to abuse the system.
The only statement on it is that it takes X amount of reports in Y amount of time.
Those that are abusing the report system, such as to try to force squelches, can be punished.
I personally view it as more of a preventative measure than a punishment in regards to squelches as a general concept.
That being said, if you are under a squelch it can certainly feel like a punishment so I wouldn’t necessarily word it that way either.
The squelch and silence are the same penalty… One is imposed by players… the other is imposed by GMs… It’s not akin to being pulled over and investigated… It’s akin to me thinking you are speeding and throwing you in jail for hours/days until a judge decides whether or not you should have been in jail… An event that doesn’t take place for hours/days later, in the majority of cases it’s not something that even happens before the silence should have worn off… It’s blizzard outsourcing their own policing to players because they’re too cheap and lazy to pay people to actually do the damn job they should be doing, and It’s astonishing that you are too blind to either see or understand this.
There are already real consequences for poor behavior in a vanilla environment… the difference is it requires an entire community to do, and not something that a single guild/group/multiboxxer could easily exploit.
Now think about that from an enforcement standpoint… False reports will happen, but not all of them are made with malice, and trying to guess as to each and every report players intent and then make a decision based upon that is incredibly unrealistic, and would be a massive and unreasonable increase in the amount of work GMs would have to do.
It’s simply not feasible to try and dig through and completely validate every single report every time, particularly when the system doesn’t really guarantee a good way to actually clarify why the report was being made.
Now let’s look at a vanilla example… A friend of mine, and a server legend on Stonemaul in vanilla, who ended up passing IRL in Cata: The Shadowpriest Booms.
Booms’s method of making himself (in)famous in vanilla was by becoming the Pirate king of Menethil. He was a Horde Shadowpriest in one of the most accomplished guilds, spent most of his free time sitting on the menethil boat, next to his secondary account’s alliance character named Boomsbot.
Boomsbot’s job was simple… Everyone who wanted to take the boat, had to pay his alliance character a toll, or walk the plank (he spoke in pirate speak the entire time)… He was successful enough at this, for it to allegedly become his primary form of in game gold farming. If you didn’t pay, you got MCd off the boat into fatigue waters until you did. He was ruthless at this…
and he was a LEGEND on the server because of it… He had friends in numerous top horde guilds who would come join in on the fun/get his back if alliance tried to group to take him down, but for the most part he simply became a fixture of every day life for the Alliance there…
I want to be very clear about this… Booms did nothing wrong, and was never once banned for these actions, in fact, Booms was CELEBRATED by both the Stonemaul community in general, and even by Blizzard itself, when he was immortalized as an NPC after his IRL death. https://www.wowhead.com/npc=68985/booms
Now put this same exact situation in the modern right click report/squelch system… Every person Boomsbot talked to probably right clicks his name and reports… It doesn’t matter one damn bit that this is a player that Blizzard themselves celebrate in memorial in game… He’s getting squelched.
He’s now being punished for doing nothing wrong with constant squelches. Moreover, to your assertion that the people reporting him would get banned for causing an inappropriate squelch… ask yourself if they really would? Most of the people reporting him might have even thought that they where doing the right thing in reporting his behavior. Are they punished for trying to use the system honestly? Now what if some people just see him there and spam report him because they don’t like him… How can you possibly differentiate between the reports made in good faith and the reports made in bad faith. Just how much GM time are you now requiring for each and every report to determine intent?
The reality is the system works like this: Reports of a great enough quantity can should and do cause a GM to take a closer look at the player being reported… There simply isn’t enough time or manpower to investigate every single report, and it’s how so many problems slip through the cracks when people are able to conspire with groups, guilds, friends, or even just multiple accounts. A multiboxer can quite literally auto squelch people solo, and it won’t necessarily be easily identifiable as a multiboxxer for a GM investigating.
The crux of this issue is that players shouldn’t have the power to unilaterally issue real in game punishments by themselves. This is especially true given the context of Vanilla gameplay vs modern game play and the larger importance that social interaction has towards actually being able to play the game… Not a single person here is advocating to remove GMs from being able to silence players. Hell, double the penalties for vanilla servers as a compromise if you feel not having player squelch is being too lenient towards toxic behavior… The point is absolutely no squelch/silence type punishments should ever be handed out by anyone but a GM. It’s too great a power for players to wield properly or responsibly.
Extremely well put.
Except community enforcement didn’t work in vanilla.
With the cost cutting measures they seem to be implementing, I’m pretty wary of there being a suitable amount of employees available to diligently research and punish cases of false reporting.
Exactly how is it not a punishment?
Is it the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense?
You know the very definition of a punishment.
Auto squelch/silence is bad.
It keeps people on their best behavior.
If people have to stop and think about the consequences of their actions.
Then it’s working as intended.
Yoy want to bring up powers people have?
People have the power to not engage in controversial conversations that have nothing to do with Azeroth.
It’s a players choice what they type in game.
Follow the CoC.
You wont have issues. It’s really that simple.
You guys are trying to make it sound this is going to be abused at every turn.
Again. A players choice to violate the CoC and suffer those consequences.
In a ruleset such as Classic time is everything.
People won’t risk being banned for false flags because yes indeed chatting and playing are privileges.
You guys know this though.
People won’t risk getting themselves in trouble because Billy tagged your mob.
Give the community some credit…
We’re going to need some of these false cases before that determination is made.
Players should not have this capability, pure and simple. r-click ignore / report serves that purpose with complete effectiveness.
I have not read one-single-decent reason why players need to have this kind of capability. Or, why/how auto-squelch is a better practice than ignore.
R-click ignore works, and it works until the party is removed from it. You need never again worry about said person saying anything again to offend you.
I honestly don’t see “auto-anything” being a positive. I just don’t.
I’ve never been silenced or banned in wow before for anything I’ve ever said. The only thing I’d like classic wow not to have is “you are sending too many messages please wait” in general chat.
Except in the real world the review process happens before any punishment is meted out, unlike the auto-squelch where no authorities review the case until after a punishment is imposed and often takes longer than the punishment to happen. That’s akin to you driving someone off the road and holding them until the cops arrive which is more than likely going to result in you heading to prison whatever the police decide to do about the “offender”.
Please fix that quote. Some of that is not mine. LOL
Being squelched is the same as being pulled over.
You are stopped from affecting anyone else on the road.
It’s the exact same thing.
You get pulled over to remove a possible road hazard.
Same thing the squelch does.
It’s not a punishment.
It’s taking them out of the situation to review the facts before proceeding.