Are raids addons too powerfull for Classic?


(Studmuffyn) #112

Will never happen, but keep hoping!


(Crispercake) #113

maybe blizz will come to their senses and limit cheating in classic.


(Studmuffyn) #114

They have cracked down pretty good on cheating over the years, but that has nothing to do with addons ,lol.


(Williams) #115

If you feel this way then you should be jumping for joy regarding the Classic WoW API because it’s far more restrictive than the Vanilla API.

They are factually making it much much much harder to automate things in the way that many players did indeed do with the Vanilla API.


(Crispercake) #116

I’m dancing and singing praise to blizz


(Omegall) #117

Vanilla addons vs Classic addons.

The topic has come up a lot that addons being back ported to classic are too powerful and are doing things not possible in classic and they ruin the nochanges experience, etc etc.

"Game should use 1.12 api because that’s what was available in classic and the current api brings new features to classic that give addons more power."

Here are the facts, 1.12 classic api was not weak. if anything, it had far more potential for abuse than 8.x api. Even ion admit this in interviews. One of core reasons they went with 8.x api over 1.12 is because the things you could do with that old api, were really broken. 8.x api is actually full of restrictions and blocks that blizzard has spent 15 years developing to counter addon authors over the years as we got better. There are a few new features too, but for most part they are minor and most of the stuff you see addons in classic doing now, isn’t because of 8.x api vs 1.x api. Blizz has done a good job removing apis classic didn’t have and will probably find a few more they missed over course of beta. They even went out of way to remove classic apis such as threat, cast bars, and mob health even though addons existed for ALL THREE of those in classic. They could have left apis in so at least addons could replicate what they did in classic while using less cpu, but they wanted to be genuine and have addons for those 3 functions be just as inefficient and ugly as they were in vanilla, because that’s true to the experience. TL/DR here, it comes down to much bigger major factors than the API, which I’ll cover next.

"So if it’s not the api that’s OP, what’s changed?"

Time. In vanilla wow, WoW was new, the api was new, and many of authors were new to coding. Authors were also starting from scratch. So you ask what’s different now? 15 years is the difference. Years of experience with wow api. Years of experience in coding. Years of actual time put into our addons. Regardless of api, you cannot erase time. Addons like Weak Auras, DBM, etc that are appearing in classic already, the power of these addons has to do with fact that YEARS of development time is already present in the code. Written by authors with years of experience making wow addons. If you still think it’s api though and want to pretend time isn’t the actual factor, look at how addons evolved in private server scene on 1.12. People today talk about quest helpers for example and how advanced they’ve gotten and classic you had to read quest text and explore. Now if you skipped private server scene you might be unaware of questie. A quest helper that did evolve over years even on top of 1.12 api, because it wasn’t the api holding it back as much as sheer amount of time a large project takes. Here we are though, 15 years later. Now, we’ve had that time and addons are advanced.

"So, if addons are super amazing now because of time, maybe blizzard should just ban them all together. I don’t want my classic ruined by addons"

You could ban addons and force vanilla UI across board for entirety of classic wow and it would make so little difference. the very thing that made addons more advanced affects EVERYTHING. You cannot single out addons and ignore everything else. We have 15 years of classic wow videos. 15 years of wowhead/thotbot comments. 15 years of technology evolution (internet, cpus, gpus, monitors/resolution, etc). 15 years of wow skill (macroing, keybinding, mouse turning, reaction time, etc). 15 years of guides (BIs lists, min max leveling routes, dungeons, raids, class, etc). Even the very nature of community has evolved so much in 15 years. Twitch, twitter, reddit, etc. All of this adds up to one simple truth. You cannot erase the last 15 years…

So to summarize. I think classic is going to be amazing and fun for a lot of us. The very core identity of it is present and that is what spells it’s success. Sense of community and cooperation. The core values of an MMO that spell it’s success. Reliving classic for those of us that understand this as classics core will be the ones that enjoy it most. Those of you stuck on things like addons and other nonsense will ruin your own experience. Those of you expecting to relive your mystery and think molten core is going to be same as it was 15 years ago when we didn’t know anything, are going to be sorely disappointing. I’m telling you right now that a boss in a 40 man raid that puts a bomb on one target is just not going to be scary by todays standards. Naxx 40 is another story, but even that isn’t going to be as hard as any of you remember it. Not with 15 years of time going into it.

So stop focusing on the silly details and focus on what matters here. For first time in a long time a lot of players are excited about sense of community again. Enjoy it, and make new friends. Create new connections that you haven’t in a long time because LFG and CRZ have turned wow into an antisocial quick fix experience that has completely removed the social aspect from every part of game except for the highest level of endgame experienced by a fraction of wow population.


(Haavi) #118

I use DBM without any of the dependencies turned on. For anyone checking it says I have DBM, but as far as I’m concerned I don’t have any functionality for it, it simply gives me a pull timer.

Honestly, I’d compare it more to shooting with or without a scope.
It doesn’t fire the gun for you, it simply assists you with your aim.
You can still fire just as well without it if you have the experience and the skill.

I’m the only person who doesn’t raid with addons in my guild, I’m also consistently the highest performing dps with significantly less gear than most of the people I’m competing against. The addons are just a tool.

Addons don’t “edit” the game.
Addons are not allowed to interact and modify actual game files. They simply provide overlays etc to provide a function.

They have recently allowed the use of addons in LAN arena tournaments such as the Arena World Championship. If anything they are becoming more addon friendly than less.


(Aethryl) #119

Wow, best MVP post I’ve seen in like ten years.


#120

Honestly, I’d love to have 1.12 API just to see AutoTravel working again
https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/project-576

It makes you /cry when you get lost somehow and /cheer when you arrive!
edit: oh that was fixed in patch 1.6


#122

This is a far better response than I could possibly compose.

Well done. So very well done. o7


#123

Seeing how people who use DBM say raids are easy, I will say yes it is probably too powerful that it makes people who handicap the game for them too easy.

People don’t want to use their brains that is why we get so many tools to make games easier. Probably makes life easier on those who need a rest from using their brains too much at work.


#124

I have read your comments here…

There is one of them that makes me guess you are a hypocrite and just like starting drama. You mentioned that you had installed a add-on and used it yet later on you call everyone who uses them cheaters.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t that make you also a “cheater”?


(Rözen) #125

Melee has to run in and out too. People forget skill too. If your healers suck then you won’t get far. It may be simpler for a lot of us today but theres a ton if people who have no idea what they are doing come classic. It’s inexperience even with addons that will slow progression in the non hardcore guilds. Not everyone is going in there and clearing it in a day no matter what they think of themselves.


#126

Did raid addons and threat addons not exist in vanila?

It seems like what people are really asking for is a return to a time when addons weren’t such common knowledge that everyone uses them, but Blizzard can’t remove knowledge from the playerbase.


#127

Everyone that raided beyond MC usually had addons.

We had to have an addon just to have raid frames as the original UI was utterly useless for out of party healing.


#128

UI addons are fine

I’m reffering to assisting addons who are just telling you what (and when) to do the whole fight.
The content will be easy enought to raid fairly without those powerfull addons.


#129

UI. It stands for “user interface.”


#130

But those addons existed in Vanilla and were subsequently closed off in the API in following expansions due to how powerful they were.


#131

If you have a PC with 2GB of RAM and a video card from 1999, is it cheating to use a brand new PC with 64GB of RAM and the latest video card?

No. Its the fault of the “naked” player for not realising that its well within the rules put forward by Blizzard that Addons are available.

Being an ignorant player is not what Blizzard or the playerbase wants. Nobody should have to force every player down to the lowest common denominator.


#132

you say, posting on a web-connected device from the comfort of your home/job/school that more than likely has wifi, air conditioning and access to food and clean water.