This doesn’t work well with your previous claim of needing specific classes to stay behind and defend at specific choke-points. Also, I didn’t say anything you just said. I stated that avoiding PvP was a successful (ie, winning) strat for groups in AV post 1.11, whereas it was not a successful strat in other battlegrounds, and you are claiming something… else. I’m not sure what, as it’s outside of anything I’ve said. If you’re trying to claim that avoiding PvP was not a successful strat in 1.11… There is much evidence that it was throughout this thread.
Except avoiding pvp is not a successful strat if the other side seeks it out. Now if both sides avoid pvp you basically have a coin toss.
But one side playing D while the other doesn’t actually favors the side playing D in 1.11+. Something that fundamentally changed with reinforcements. That is what you are not understanding.
![:popcorn:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/popcorn.png?v=6" ":popcorn:")
![:grimacing:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grimacing.png?v=6" ":grimacing:")
![:beer:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/beer.png?v=6" ":beer:")
Emphasis mine.
Please do not claim what I do and do not understand, you have no idea what those things are.
For example – I understand that two teams can very easily walk past each other in 1.11+ AV, and with minimal defenders, they can push forward.
And that prior to 1.11, that was not a viable strat, as NPCs dazed and crippled the enemy offensive, forcing a much tighter group of players to chew their way forward, and opening many more opportunities for PvP, during which a single player could have a much greater impact.
Let’s take another one. I’m also aware that if we keep 1.11 AV as Classic Vanilla’s AV, if we get TBC and / or Wrath servers, we’ll end up with two duplicate versions of AV – either Vanilla and TBC will share a version of AV, or TBC and Wrath will, as mechanically speaking, TBC only ever had 1.11’s version of AV and the reinforcement revamp, and Wrath only ever had a single version of AV: the reinforcement revamp.
So from my perspective, you do not understand that a museum should have diversity in its exhibits, and are basically protesting the possibility of a more fully featured museum because… what? Because you don’t like a specific painting?
I guess you don’t understand museums.
You seem to have emphasized what proves my point… given
Except you seem not to… you have no clue how to play AV in 1.11 and no clue what the actual impact of reinforcements was. For example you seem to have no clue that if both sides zerg but one side plays just a little D and messes up the other side’s zerg that team wins but in reinforcement world that’s not the case.
Now in 1.11 that means both sides need to try to break up the others zerg, as whatever side zergs but leaves a few behind beats the side that just zerg. But in post reinforcement world that’s not the case.
In post reinforcement world horde can simply play 100% D and have an almost 100% win. You clearly were not playing when reinforcements were added if you don’t understand that.
I do, and I’ve always been in favor of blizzard offering both version of AV.
That you think AV 1.11 is the same as AV post reinforcements really just shows how clueless you are.
The only thing this statement proves is that you lack reading comprehension.
Patch 1.11’s AV was only supplanted in 2.3, by the Reinforcement system that was added to AV. There were no other significant changes to AV in the lifespan of TBC. You’ll note that at this time, I’ve stated that either Vanilla and TBC would share a version, or TBC and Wrath would. Let’s break the statement down since you’re having trouble with it.
This means that I’m claiming either Vanilla and TBC will both share a mechanically-same version (1.11), or TBC and Wrath will (2.3 / Reinforcements), as Wrath had no significant adjustments to AV mechanics at all.
At no point in time did I claim that 1.11 AV was the same as the post-reinforcements AV. I claimed that if we got TBC servers, they would either have 1.11’s mechanics, or reinforcements mechanics, and by necessity, one of these versions will be shared by either Vanilla Classic, or Wrath Classic.
Would you like to reply to something I’ve actually said, or would you like to keep making claims that don’t actually reflect any of my stated opinions?
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I must have dozed off just after zyrius equated trying to talk people out of zerging in AV to trying to talk people out of not pulling the “hurry up and lose” in wsg/ab. The depths of absurdity he plumbs… boy howdy.
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2.3 was a BC patch not a wrath patch, and the mechanics of 2.3 as far as reinforcements go are what exist to today. If we got the same kind of BC we got for vanilla it would have reinforcements.
And as for the actual discussion about when AV really changed in regards to reinforcements and how that impacts classic it doesn’t matter whether that happened in BC or Wrath.
Just that reinforcements created the current retail situation you are whining about not 1.11.
I am amazed at the repeated difficulty you are having comprehending what she/he has written.
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… Yes, I am aware. 1.x = Vanilla, 2.x = TBC, 3.x = Wrath… I didn’t think that needed to be explicitly said, but I appear to have overestimated you again. My apologies.
Yes, as would Wrath. They would be mechanically the same as Wrath had no changes to AV at all. At this point I’m debating if I’ve fallen into the definition of insanity though given how often I’ve already said this.
… I’m not even sure you know what we’re talking about any more besides that it involves AV, and a part of me thinks you may just be rolling a die and saying things that match up to a pre-determined response.
It’s honestly hard to believe you can genuinely be this obtuse and that you can keep mischaracterizing your opponents despite repeated explanations. I can’t feel you’re here in good faith any more. I have tried very hard, but you don’t even argue the points being made – you make up points and argue them, instead. You create your own straw man, and thereby cease contributing to the actual conversation.
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You should probably read the entire quote instead of just nit picking before talking about reading comprehension.
As I said if blizzard used the same model for BC they used for classic BC would have reinforcements from day one. That is however irrelevant to the discussion of how reinforcements changed AV vs 1.11 AV.
What point are you even trying to argue? Did reinforcements which were added patch 2.3 change AV or did moving from patch 1.12 to 2.0?
That’s oversimplifying the issue. The point is that the 1.12 AV Blizzard is giving us has more in common with current AV than the original BG. The map, the objectives, the quests, etc.
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So what? It was in Vanilla. So, #NoChanges is being upheld.
I get it, y’all wanted 1.5. I would have liked to see what that one was like myself, but I’m not about to ask Blizzard for something they probably don’t even have.
It has less NPC’s but the objectives are the same. There are no reinforcements.
The objectives change with the content. We’re still able to summon the raid bosses in retail but it’s not an objective because it’s not an efficient way to win the battle. And that’s ignoring the quests they’ve outright removed.
They don’t have the original map, either.
I’m not sure if this is a cop out response or not but after experiencing so many years of the complete tragedy that AV is now… I’m okay with this. If I had it perfectly my way I would at least add Korak back, but I’m happy that we are still going to be far, far, FAR removed from the ‘race’ that AV is now.
Yes, I think that’s probably the reason they went with the 1.12 version, and not because they think it’s superior. I’m hoping that if Classic is a big enough success they’ll put in the resources to recreate old AV. If private servers can do it, I’m sure Blizz can.