That’s… that’s the entire point. “Playing normally” is all Horde need to do. Alliance can’t simply “play normally” to win, because of the map imbalances.
In what way is holding the bridge going to give us IBGY or FWGY? We can’t race unless we’re already have an offensive foothold to match Horde taking SHGY or SPGY.
/facepalm
No, they don’t.
5% win rate is… even?
The Alliance can 100% play normally. They just need to win the fights (which they dont). The reason why Horde “plays normally” is because “playing normally” is them straight up beating the alliance wherever they go.
Holding the bridge and taking Horde objectives is how Alliance won for the past 15 years. It’s called the “Zerg” strat. Leave a team defending bridge/SPGY whereas the advancing team goes attacks. Yes alot of it will be unsuccessful, but that applies to every attempt at a big push regardless of faction or objective. SFGY should be the zerg’s first objective. For every alliance that dies on offense, it makes the Alliance defense stronger (since they’d be rezzing near the bridge).
This is the famous Alliance turtle. Just counter the IBGY turtle with your own turtle.
Eventually, Horde let the Alliance take SFGY since they’d rather get fast loss than a long win.
That’s how it was done in Vanilla, private servers, and to a lesser extent, beginning classic
Also, win rate is close to 60-40, 70-30 if you really want to be pessimistic
We do win the fights, we just need to win the fights over and over and over again consistently, without fail, to actually take and hold IBGY. Horde need no such consistency.
hOrDe Is JuSt BeTtEr At PvP dUh!
Okay zug zug.
Yes. It’s well known that the Alliance AVs have lots of alts, PVErs, bots, low-geared players. Essentially, anyone BUT the rankers as they are in WSG/AB. Horde play all 3 BGs due to queue times, whereas Alliance can play which ever BG they want with relative ease.
That’s why the win rates are so much higher on AV weekends when Alliance players actually come out
And yes, you do need to win consistently over and over again. That’s PVP. That’s why you hold a choke. Just like how the horde does too. The horde just doesnt die once and give up lol.
I remember when Alliance would just GIVE SHGY and start turtling already near SP while the zerg advances.
I can safely mute you at this point because:
You actually think Horde are just better, and that it is acceptable for Horde to have a single soft-cap to seal in the Alliance, whereas Alliance have to do far far more to turn IBGY into any sort of forward position.
Zug zug away and enjoy your 3 hour queues.
You can if you want buts pretty much well known that alliance AV are full of bots and afkers, and that due to queue times Horde are more serious about AV. It’s also well known that AV weekends suddenly the alliance win rates shoot up. These are facts and you can make your own conclusions
Your team must love it when you pop into their team.
Why does it have to be the map, or Alliance’s crappy attitude and not having the will to win? Why can’t it be both? Because it clearly is both.
The Faction imbalance def. plays a part as well.
Exhibit A of why you are wrong: Alliance Winning AV (On AV Weekends Only) - #130 by Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers
Sorry what was even the strategy you were describing?
But regardless, majority of the time, Horde does this strat and wins with it majority of the time. So yes your 2 examples are counter evidence, but there are other aspects like strategy.
So from what I gather from your example, a smaller group of Horde defenders back capped and attritioned you long enough until you all wiped.
So what were your team’s defense doing? And why didnt you guys try again? It’s well known that Alliance need to focus on defense more and why couldnt your own alliance defense team defend with the same effectiveness as the horde’s?
No, we didn’t wipe. They couldn’t wipe us. But they could stall us long enough for the horde team north to get caps. They won by killing Vann before we could kill Drek. If we had left 20 on defense to match the horde’s 20 on offense, we would have been overwhelmed down south, and it would have turned into a game where we had no GYs south of IWB pass and we lose.
THAT is the problem: horde cave rez allows 20 horde defenders to overcome 20 alliance attackers, so alliance are required to send much more on offense than the horde have on defense, allowing horde to have a numbers advantage on offense.
Disagree with you here. In AV Horde does have better players. None of the alliance rankers are in there. Most Horde rankers have it as part of their rotation. That’s a massive difference in skill.
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Don’t get me wrong. The spawn points shouldn’t rez (for either alliance or horde) unless the faction doesn’t control another GY. But pretending that somehow there isn’t a pretty big difference in the skill of the players actually queuing up for the BG is either disingenuous or ignorant.
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Edit: and before anyone tries to play the “but AB / WSG is even” card. Stop. Rankers queue up for those. They also have smaller player bases meaning if you happen to pug 2-3 great players, they can own a lot of team fights on their own. The primary difference between AV and the other two BGs is that Horde has a bunch of players that can win team fights within the condensed 11ish open BGs and alliance have far fewer. AV weekend changes this equation some. That isn’t me saying “horde has better pvpers.” That is me saying “more of Horde’s good pvpers queue for AV than equivalent Alliance good pvpers.”
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And again, I am not suggesting no changes.
Ok, I found your problem and why your kills were so much higher.
You guys spread yourselves too thin. The Horde purposely sent smaller team for that exact reason to focus down an objective one at a time.
The alliance can 100% do the same thing with SP or just stalling on the bridge or the bunkers. So in part, your alliance defense failed you.
Also, so what if you lose some ground on offense? Alliance in AV usually just turtled for a very slow and long drawn win. With a turtle like that you cnan take your time and try as many as you want
Just use the same strat many years ago
Its not 50%. I’ve been playing AV non stop since AV weekend started. I’ve played 33 games. I’ve won 3 of them, and these wins were after midnight.
We had hard capped IBGY and it was time to move some of us down to take TP and FWGY. We had to leave some to defend IBGY. The horde who rezzed could get from the cave to any of those 3 objectives before we could move reinforcements between them. We had about 5 at TP and the rest were split pretty evenly between defending IBGY and holding FWGY for the hard cap. Even if we just split to cover 2 objectives (defending IBGY and assaulting FWGY) that splits 30 attackers into 2 groups of 15, each of which individually is outnumbered by the 20 horde cave rez spawns, which is between FWGY and IBGY, and they can choose collectively to go to either of those locations faster than we can move reinforcements back and forth.
One of the games I was in yesterday, I suggested to work around that problem by just camping their cave so that we could contain them and not have to split our forces to defend multiple places all within easy reach of the cave. The problem is, that means locking down around 20 of our offense just holding the cave, and since they will be respawning right there 20 at a time and we will be respawning 10 at a time at IBGY, we would need around 30 to hold the cave for any extended period of time. WTF is supposed to be on offense at this point if we have 10 people on defense?
Still trolling the forums I see.
Just keep continuing to spew your feelings backed up by 15 year news articles about how alliance win AV. Meanwhile 15 years later the math has been done and it’s been statistically proven the Map heavily favors Horde.
Can you share those statistics?
You don’t understand basic math.
There is a reason why Alliance have to have higher HKs in order to win AV.
Unlike Horde who can completely ignore defending IBGY because of the cave the Alliance have to Defend SH and make a push at the same time. This is just a numbers game at this point. Can the alliance hold 2 points of interest at the same time vs a 40 man zerg? If the answer is yes then the alliance are 2x better then the Horde they queued against. If the answer is no then we lose SH and the game is effectively over.
Go through my months of posting history.
The simplest math I’m willing to do now is just reinforcements.
Horde does not have to defend IBGY because of the position of the cave ~20 seconds away this allows them to full send 40 people to any point of interest.
Alliance have to defend SHGY because the next GY is Stormpike 1 minute away.
In order for Alliance to win they have to defend SH and also flip an objective and hold it. Assuming an even split of 20/20 at each point of interest this requires the alliance to be at least twice as good as the 40man zerg of Horde showing up to a point.
If SH is flipped at any point whether we’re assaulting SFGY or IBGY we res a full minute away 10 at a time and are instantly choked off. If the trade is SHGY for IBGY the horde now res 20 at a time (not 10) in the cave to reinforce IBGY 20 seconds away.
Assuming an evenly matched team where the scenario is the Alliance have SH and SF contested any death that happens at SF results in the Alliance player ressing at Aidstation while the Horde player resses at IBGY. This is a near 2 minute reinforcement vs a 30 second reinforcement for that 1 player.
I’m not going into more detail then this. This is all factual and has nothing to do with how good or bad a side is. Just simple math.
Funny how Vanilla Alliance and current Asia and Oceanic server players dont seem to have as much of a stumbling block. It’s as if these map “imbalances” arent the real culprit of the lack of alliance success