Already been debunked.
Vanilla wow everyone sucked the Horde turtling strat at IBGY/Field didn’t exist until reinforcements showed up in TBC. Sure we have no reinforcements now but the strat is still the same and just as effective.
Asia and Oceanic both sides zerging has nothing to do with the advantage. The horde there want short queues. I noticed you conveniently left out EU servers which share similar problems to NA.
We have been over this. Stop peddling the “horde there want short queues” nonsense.
And while I am at it, this is incorrect too. Horde isn’t turtling. We are bliztkrieging.
Wrong. The faction ratio flipping coincides almost exactly in time period as the omgimpentrableibgy. And yes, Asia and Oceanic servers do count because asia servers have constantly called the NA alliance players bad for not knowing how to play the map properly and their win rates are actually reversed. Oceanic is a bit more even
Can you tell me the difference between NA, OCE, Asia? They have the exact same map. it’s a player issue and therefore, a “learn to play” issue
Yes they do want short queues. They have short queues. Whether it’s 1m-30m that’s still drastically shorter then what Horde in NA have and it’s understandable that they’d want to keep it that way.
So tell me when you send 30 players back to IBGY from SH is that blitzkrieging or turtling? When you res 20 at a time in the cave and instead of riding past to go forward and “blitzkrieg” do you go straight into IBGY or SF to turtle out the remaining Alliance? Since obviously these objectives are south of your zerg.
I never said asia and oceanic servers don’t matter I just told you the reason for the disparity. When both sides zerg both sides have lower queue times. When games end fast more people can get into games faster. Instead of 30m-1h games when they end in 15minutes even if Horde have more people queueing that still puts more of their players into a new game potentially 4x as many games per hour.
If you’re trying to argue in bad faith we’re done discussing anything.
So your evidence of their “wanting short queues so they purposely handicap themselves” is because of the short queues themselves? Thats called circular logic. Maybe… just maybe the reason is because their queues are short is because the alliance actually queue AV and try? That’s a much simpler reason.
Funny how you complain about alliance turtling, but alliance turtled worked for 15 years but suddenly isnt no longer viable oddly aroound the same time the faction balance flipped around. All too coincidental in fact
Horde slow pushes because the queue is so long. The queue is so long because alliance wont queue. It is a vicious circle.
You are peddling this trash as if there is something Horde could do about their queue times. There isn’t. I have 1 hour queue times right now on AV weekend with 40+ games running at a time. Non AV weekend, we wouldn’t get 40+ games (getting more like 11-15 games) and the number of horde players queuing won’t significantly reduce. The number of alliance players, however, does. Seriously. You make other good points. This isn’t one of them.
This happens once every 10+ games and even that isn’t a turtle because the players don’t remain south. They smash the alliance at IBGY then move back north to continue zug zugging. There are games where horde turtles. It is extremely uncommon and is definitely not indicative of how horde approaches most games.
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Straight up, if you don’t understand how the horde strategy works, you are probably one of the problems alliance side. It is literally zug zug to SHGY. Wait, alliance are at IBGY? zug zug IBGY. Now zug zug SHGY. What? Alliance are moving on SFGY? Send 20 to zug zug SFGY and the rest continue zug zugging SHGY. And this is when alliance are frisky. Normally it is straight zug zug SHGY. There is no turtle here.
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The only time there is a turtle? Horde is losing. Period. End of discussion.
Exactly. THIS is the Horde strat. They just go and attack alliance wherever they go while riding towards SHGY. If alliance go west, we go west. If they go east, we go east too. If they hide in a crater in field of strife, we go attack that crater (this actually happened once. Very creative). The reason why this strat works is because Horde beat alliance in straight up fights in AV.
Peddling trash? Go look at Asia/Oceanic horde queue times.
If you’re thinking for a second that ALL of the alliance have come back to AV weekend you’re sadly mistaken. It’s only a fraction of the PVP player base as proven by other bgs such as WSG and AB with much much lower Horde queue times.
Every single game no matter where Alliance go Horde will turtle. I’m not saying it’s bad I’m just saying it is what it is. In the odd chance we bottle neck the horde out and outplay them every step of the way to barely get IBGY capped we will have an endless wave of horde turtling from FW to IBGY with zero attempt to go north to complete objectives. This exact situation was seen in the premade days as well. Full send recall turtle to Drek disregarding any other objective.
Once again I’m not saying it’s wrong to do I’m just saying it is what it is.
If you think I don’t understand the Horde “strategy” you’re sadly mistaken. It’s a full 40 send to wherever the alliance are because they don’t have to defend IBGY at all until they softcap SH and default win.
I’m once again simply stating that the Horde strategy is much easier to follow and much more simplistic in nature for a pug to do then the corresponding alliance situation which requires splits and perfect defense. If we full send to IBGY or SF we lose because of reinforcements and res distance, horde do not have this same problem.
To the last statement the only time the horde “turtle” is when they are stuck. That’s obvious. However what’s not obvious is the 15+ people that stay back to deny even LT kills for the Alliance. They will be there roaming at IWB choke and also Galv just to deny every aspect of honor that does not effect their game. This does not include sending people back to recap towers.
If it’s an Alliance premade vs. Horde pugs situation, that doesn’t really mean much.
When winning 50% of your AV games is so unheard of that you have to make a forum post to verify, there’s a problem.
Yes. Peddling trash. Their PVP base has a better split than the NA base does.
I am thinking that I have 30 minute queues for AB / WSG, so talk to me again about that large alliance pvp base in NA. It doesn’t exist.
You literally don’t know what you are talking about with this comment and it is apparent to literally anyone who plays horde. Horde send defenders back, but it is never a turtle. Apparently you don’t understand the definition of a turtle, so let me break it down for you. In WSG, you have most of your players in the base guarding the flag with a flag runner trying to get the flag solo or with a couple of players. In AB there really isn’t much of this concept because the map requires you to spread out to hold 3 nodes which is about as close to a turtle as that map gets. In AV, you have 35-40 holding SHGY…wait, did I say SHGY? I meant…no, that’s exactly what I meant. The only faction that turtles in AV is the alliance at the moment. Because a “turtle” means to keep your entire faction in one location defending that location over the course of the entirety or most of the game.
Again, you literally don’t understand the horde strategy because the only time there are 40 of us anywhere is if alliance are turtling SHGY. Period. If we are getting wrecked, you can bank on 5-6 players north doing god knows what, 5-6 sitting in the cave waiting to lose, and the rest attempting to hold our unholdable base. But 40 people chasing alliance? Nah. You take IBGY you might get 30 back tops. You make a run at Galv, you might get 20 back. You take SFGY, you will get 20 there. Ultimately though, there are literally never 40 horde anywhere.
I don’t recall saying the Horde strategy isn’t easy to follow. It is by its nature a reactionary strategy. Alliance go somewhere, Horde call out where and 10-20 will follow while the rest stay on SHGY. If it is an important target (IBGY), more than 20 will likely go back to retake it. Played two games last night. Both went exactly this way. That isn’t a turtle and there is no definition of a turtle that fits that description.
15+ he says. BHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Maybe if you get enough alliance south to warrant 15+ defending. That did happen in one of my games last night. Alliance bypassed defending SPGY and rode south to Galv. Horde had 15ish defending against 15ish alliance. We wiped them and then moved back north. That’s also not a turtle. That’s objective denial and alliance pulled the same stuff 15 years ago. It is fair game.
Dumbest argument. if it were a player issue win rates would be closer to other BGs. the forward horde cave causes so many issues, even recognised by blizzard and was fixed pretty early in TBC.
If it were a map issue, Alliance wouldn’t have won all those games back in the day.
The map hasn’t changed. People know more about the map. People know more about their classes. People know more about their races. People know more about itemization.
The map hasn’t changed. What has changed is that pirate servers have had fifteen years to theorycraft and work out strategies. Same as with how Molten Core and Onyxia were both completely beaten before the first reset. The people have changed.
This argument is old and can’t hold water. If there were no map imbalances, it wouldn’t have been fixed in TBC.
I agree players have changed over the years, which lead horde to take advatange of the massive map advantage they have over alliance. They use it every single game.
This.
It is bizarre when individuals like snacks claim that horde are playing the strategy they did in TBC with reinforcements. It is not even remotely the same. Demonstrating that the guy clearly has no idea what he is talking about. I am guessing he started wow in the panda expansion.
you guys actually win on AV weekends because your good players will actually play. youre not one of them im guessing.
Because the gear level and skill level of the players is not balanced. It’s like NBA players coming back to open court at a highschool gym when alliance rankers come back on av weekend. You can have a huge handicap and still win. The normal situation is trash vs trash and in that state the imbalance shows.
A lot of the Horde rankers spend a good deal of time in AV, with other BGs in between, because it offers a high base honor. Just saying.