A Formal Request Thread for Fresh/New TBC Servers

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
1357

Wrong, you said it yourself:

Exactly! That’s VERY different than trying to ask for OPTIONAL “fresh”. The other “fresh” threads were more in alignment in forcing EVERYONE to be on the same playing field. I’d comment in those very threads stating that while I would like “fresh” BC, it wasn’t for ANY of the reasons those threads were suggesting. That’s how I knew who the Majority were because those Threads would constantly get shut down.

  1. A Vocal Party asking for Classic is HIGHLY different than asking for RP Servers and/or Language Servers, first of all. An argument can be made (even if it was just a “vocal minority”) that there’s ZERO possibility of accessing Old World (Pre-Deathwing Destruction), in the Standard Game. The ONLY way to do that is through Classic. I’ve been advocating to have that accessible in the Standard Game for awhile. With this Survey it infuriates me, that they MIGHT (keyword) want to alter Classic with some QoL Features, when they can just make the Old World (pre-Deathwing Destruction) in the Standard Game that has all of these QoL Features, already:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/i-made-this-suggestion-before/899220

  1. In relation to RP Servers, they’re still really not that popular. Grobbulus might be the ONLY one (and that’s stretching it), but that’s an RP-PvP Server. Deviate Delight (an RP-PvP Server) is a Low Pop Server. You and I are both on Bloodsail Buccaneers (the ONLY RP Server, it doesn’t have the “PvP” part, slapped onto it) is a Medium Pop Server. With BB, though, it’s Alliance dominated, so if you plan to roll Horde, just know it holds similar population numbers of Horde members as Pagle does. Though, Pagle has WAY more Alliance members than BB, does.
  2. In Regards to Language Servers, NONE of them are “High” Pop, at all. Oceanic has 3/4 Medium Pop with one being Low. Latin America AND Brazil, only have one Server each are both LOW population! So, no, the RP Servers and Language Servers are not that popular compared to other Servers. Classic (as a whole), however, has a moderate amount of people playing.

I think it’s the only way it’ll work.

I agree with that.

IDK about that…with the Survey out scaring the heck out of the Perma Server community…we’ll see LOL

You think they’re going to create some abomination Classic option?

Don’t we already know? :woman_shrugging:

“Not Right Now”

Kind of like what I’ve been saying? :thinking:

“Not Right Now”

You’re welcome!

That’s not true. “Fresh” is still “fresh”, no matter how you slice and dice it. Also, don’t argue this with me because somebody else thinks you wouldn’t mind “either” or even thinks that anyone asking for “fresh” means “Seasonal” and that “NEW Servers” and “Seasonal” are “the same” LOL

This same person agreed with me that this thread is a:

I am responding to everyone.

They can accuse me of anything they want, that doesn’t make them anymore “right”. Not once have I accused any of you for “trolling” because I don’t have to. I can conduct myself without resorting to calling any of you that. Calling anybody a “troll” doesn’t strengthen anyone’s arguments. Typically, when anybody resorts to name calling, it means…you lost the argument, simple as that. Not once have I called any of you “trolls”.

Mhmm.

Can you tell me why you don’t agree with it? Is it that far of a stretch to believe that adding redundant Servers is just spreading the population so thinly by the time Perma Servers come along, and Blizz will have no choice but to turn on Connected Realms?

Then, you (specifically) can stop replying to me because you’re never going to change my mind.

Earlier, yes. However, I’ve said (time and time, again), that NEW Servers will NOT “fix” your issues. I don’t find it worth it to create redundant servers just to have 4 weeks of “fun” before it becomes the garbage that you hate. I’ve said this, over and over, again. I think that’s a rude thing to do to the BC Community, to make them suffer through Connected Realms just because you lot want 4 weeks of “fun”.

And, all the garbage that you’re trying to run away from, will still follow you, no matter where you go. I suggest you learn how to deal with it. Which is why I suggested Seasonal because those servers will NOT be redundant, and that “fresh” experience (again, IK it’s not EXACTLY, no not “nothing” 'cause there’s still remnants of similarity between the two, especially to others who think they’re the same, not me but somebody else) who want “fresh”. We’re not going to get EXACTLY what we want out of this, you need to UNDERSTAND that. Which is why you need to figure out what’s important to you and learn what to “give up”, so you don’t disappoint yourself. Which, I think you’re going to end up disappointed, regardless.

I have to do this, too, with Perma Classic MIGHT (keyword) be adding in QoL Features. I created my own post regarding what I believe to be “tolerable” and expressed the changes I don’t want but can foresee and preparing myself for when they arrive:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/new-survey-news-on-wowhead/893221/11
Don’t get me wrong, I want NONE of that, but I’m going to prepare myself for what’s to come to Perma Classic Servers. This isn’t what the Classic folks want, either, but we’re discussing these things and hoping for the best:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/major-classic-changes/899006

I guess that’s kind of a compliment LOL

Yeah, I guess I’m equally as stubborn as the rest of you, huh? :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Correct. I don’t either, but that’s just me.

Everyone? EVERYONE? LOL

Actually, ALL of us will especially by the time Perma arrives!

According to the “New” Servers created for Classic (like the RP and Language Servers), they didn’t really but OK :+1:

LOL keep dreaming :rofl:

1358

“Vocal minority” responses from the community poll thread:

Would you support the implementation of TBC Fresh Servers? 534 responses

|Yes|461|
|No|73|

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1359

Piper is just trying to debate everything anyone says in small quoted chunks. Must be a hobby of theirs. You could just post “yes” and they’ll quote it and say “no”.

It’s a way to troll that gets under people’s skin because it urges them to keep replying.

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1360

A couple of things:

  1. “Support” is not the same thing as “play on”.
  2. The Question is framed very vaguely.
    a. “Support” instead of progressing into?
    b. “Support” alongside of progressing into?
    c. “Support” a NEW Server or Seasonal Server concept?

Negative. Only IK what I’m trying to do, and what’s a “hobby” of mine :slightly_smiling_face:

Negative. At least those that just blindly say “yes” I don’t respond with “no” to. I’m pointing out the obvious holes in the arguments of others, and the best defense some (not all) can give is “yOu ArE jUsT a TrOlL!”, how constructive :roll_eyes:

  1. I’m not a Troll.
  2. I’d like to think somebody who uses their own brain is what gets under people’s skin because they cannot fully control them, and that’s why they keep replying because HOW DARE I think differently, RAWR! :roll_eyes:

So, stop being hypocritical and just not respond, yourself, either. I can’t take you lot seriously, when you preach how to be “right” while simultaneously still doing “wrong”. It’s amazing! LOL

1361

Given the choice, would you play on TBC Fresh Servers, TBC “Progression” Servers or both? 535 responses

|Fresh Servers Only|180|
|Progression Servers Only|202|
|Both|153|

It’s this option obviously considering the following question whose data i referenced above.

hob·by

    1. an activity done regularly in one’s leisure time for pleasure.

Sure smells like a hobby considering you post constantly in this thread.

No, but you have a counter argument for everything anyone posts.

Keep telling yourself that.

1362

There is good and bad to Piper’s trolling though.

On the bad side, she does like to quote people out of context and respond to them.

On the good side, she keeps bumping up a highly positive thread with over 400 likes that has been viewed almost 14,000 times. While I am not a proponent for the axiom of, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity”, in this case I do believe her responses are helping the thread far more than harming it. Most people have seen through her methods by now and I believe many of them are still responding just to see how out of context they can be responded to. :slight_smile:

I stopped a while back as I remember being taught in debate it does no good to try to argue with fanatics and people who only know how to rely on logical fallacies. You cannot persuade either of those two mentalities with logic and rhetoric.

Thanks.

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1363

I agree 100%, I mainly just wanted to reference the data from the “poll” in the other thread on fresh servers. I don’t even read their wall of nonsensical quote replies in general.

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1364

Not sure if your dense but there were more than a few threads demanding Fresh only for everyone. Feel free to go back and look them up since i posted in them that it was a bad idea and options are far better.

No its not

Thats the entire point. A clearly smaller group of people wanted to get a thing and the community as a whole got behind the idea of that CHOICE for the players. I think that most people want a choice going into TBC. The question is what is Blizzard giving and what do the players feel is the right direction. This whole thread is asking for blizzard for the choice to start from the beginning and New server no Transfers no Boosts for the start of TBC.

1365

Even by your own survey, the majority is still for Progression Servers LOL

Well, I can’t know that because:

  1. You didn’t provide a source Link
  2. You only gave me one question.

I post in many threads, not just this one. I (also) play the game, too. It’s not a “hobby” of mine to “troll”, though. That’s what you’re implying and/or insinuating. I’m on the Forums, yes. To Troll, though? No.

That’s the point of Forums/conversations. If we disagree, we discuss why we disagree, and that’s what I’m doing :woman_shrugging:

I’m not telling myself that, I’m telling you that. Notice how it’s you lot that calls me “Troll”, when I’ve never called you, any of that LOL That’s the sound of somebody “losing an argument”.

You keep saying that without explaining it. At least I explain myself. Your bad side is using Fallacy Fallacy (Argument from Fallacy).

You’re right, I’m NOT harming it, at all! :open_mouth:

Nah, you lot just want to add more “numbers” to your precious thread. That’s fine, I don’t mind. Because IK it’s more about quality than quantity. And, it’s not a “method”. You lot just get tired of defending your position (which is funny because if you believe in something so much you’d fight for it until the end! That’s how we got Classic, but I have a feeling, you lot haven’t been here, since the beginning and rather have just been hijacking the movement, but that’s OK, let’s just call it what it is :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: ) EXACTLY like I have been doing, defending my position, until the end!

The irony and hypocrisy in this statement is astounding. You practice Fallacy Fallacy ALL of the time. You cannot dispute my conclusion without resorting to the Fallacy Fallacy method LOL

Sure you can! None of you have done it, though. You’ve (also) just represented the Ad Hominem method, as well. You’ve acted TWO different fallacies! This is amazing!

You’re welcome!

Which proves that the majority want progression over “fresh”. You only proved me right LOL

You should. You can learn a lot more from people that differ from you than those that just agree with you.

I’ve been around, and only one person suggested an “optional” “fresh” concept, and that participant wasn’t going to play on it, anyway. There were no threads created demanding for “optional” “fresh” servers until this announcement came out. The only threads that existed were demanding EVERYONE to go “fresh”.

Yes, it is. Classic, itself, has a moderate amount of players playing it which is acceptable to have it exist compared to creating servers just for them to die.

I understand that, but you’re trying to claim that they were thriving in popularity, when they clearly did not. It’s obviously a minority vocal group and not a majority one. I’ve been saying this, and you people keep proving me right. How are you not seeing this?

I understand that, and as much I want to give them NEW Servers, years down the line, I can see it being problematic by the time Perma comes into it, and I cannot support the NEW Server ideology. But, nobody really cares about that, and that’s why I can’t take you people seriously because of that fact…you just don’t care. You don’t care about the affects that you have on other people and for that, I can’t support it. I just can’t.

IK and understand this. What you lot don’t understand is your lack of foresight, and the long term affects it’s going to have by the time Perma Servers happen.

Also, I (too) would like “no Boosts”, as well, even on Servers progressing into BC from Classic. This isn’t strictly a NEW Server movement demand. This is a general BC demand whether you’re for “fresh” and/or “progression”, doesn’t matter. We’re all in agreement, there.

1366

The amount of people that would play on fresh servers is greater than the amount that would ONLY play on progression servers, hence the support for fresh. Some people will play on both, myself included.

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1367

No, it’s not. Those are TWO different questions!

Is SUPPORTING it (doesn’t mean play it)!

Is between the two or even both but considering it’s for both, neither one of us can use the “both” option as if it favors either or. I don’t even count it. I’m only counting the Progression vs “Fresh” part, and it’s clear that Progression wins. I will say, though, I’m confident that “both” is more “intrigued” with the concept of “fresh” because they’ll still have their Progression, as a “fall back”.

According to this very survey, “fresh” is still in the minority. So, can we agree on this point? ('Cause I said this, and nobody believed me, and I called it, before you provided evidence supporting exactly what I just said).

EDIT: But, the Survey still doesn’t distinguish what “fresh” type it even is “NEW Servers” or “Seasonal Servers”.

EDIT 2: I mean, if we want to count as “both” in our favor, it just means they’re content with either, even if the other doesn’t exist which is why I don’t even count it. Between “fresh” having 180 and Progression having 202…202 beats 180, sorry :woman_shrugging:

1368

That’s not what the question asks though… the question asks whether you would PLAY fresh only, progression only or play both.

To say some players won’t play on a fresh server (if provided) and NOT on a progression server… just doesn’t make sense. Plenty of people play on more than one server.

In this case you have to count the both option as in support of fresh servers because they simply wouldn’t be able to play on fresh servers if they didn’t exist.

Edit: 180 + 153 > 202… sorry

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1369

And, if we want to use “both” in our favor, it doesn’t really matter because Progression still has more numbers than “fresh” does. Again, it doesn’t clarify the type of “fresh”, either. Does it mean NEW Servers or Seasonal? Because “fresh” is used interchangeably between the two, and it can get confusing for people.

…I’m confused. When was this statement said? :thinking:

Correct, that doesn’t mean they only play on specific types of Servers, though.

No because “both” would be content with either or. Even if we did…it’s still supports Progression Servers, too.

202 + 153 = 355 sorry :woman_shrugging:

355 for Progression over 202 for “fresh”.

It’s why I don’t even count the “both” option because it doesn’t leverage either one of us.

EDIT: It’s so OBVIOUS “fresh” is in the minority.

1370

But… again… they couldn’t play on fresh if fresh wasn’t an option… so you must include both in favor of fresh…

1371

And, they’ll be content to play on Progression and vice versa.

Sure, still means Progression has more numbers than “fresh”, though. Even if it was “fresh” only, those who picked “both” would be content with that, too.

EDIT: Which is why I didn’t include “both”, at all. It’s CLEAR Progression is the Majority. Simple as that.

1372

Again, they couldn’t play on both if it’s not an option… would they play on progression if fresh wasn’t offered? Sure. But that doesn’t mean the people that said ‘both’ don’t support fresh servers.

1373

Correct, but that doesn’t matter in the context of who the Majority players are and even Progression beats “both”.

Exactly.

Again, “fresh” wasn’t identified in the type of “fresh” that is it “NEW Servers” or “Seasonal Servers”?

Because there’s TWO different “fresh” groups, here. I’m against NEW Server “fresh”, but I support Seasonal Server “fresh”.

1374

Progression doesn’t beat fresh only and both though… so again 180 +153 > 202.

Until you can show me HOW 333 < 202 then there is no point in discussing it further.

Are the players that want to actually play on fresh servers a minority given the total population? Probably. But Blizz caters to players wants all the time (Eg. Classic, RP servers, Classic “vanilla” era servers, TBC Classic etc). So, asking for Fresh servers seems like something Blizz both SHOULD do and WOULD do.

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1375

Yes, it does. If you want to use “both”, than “both” is equally as in favor for Progression than “fresh”. Which is 355 which beats 202.

I did, multiple times. “Both” is in favor for Progression (as well), to which is 355 and NOT just 202 (which is the same number as your “fresh” community combined but just for Progression). This is why I’m not even using “both” because it still slams “fresh”. “Both” caters into Progression, as well. Don’t you see that?

You are.

Sure. And, my want is to not have redundant amounts of Servers spreading the population so thinly by the time Perma Servers arrive.

And, I think Blizz having some foresight is something they SHOULD and WOULD do, as well.

So, now we’re back at square one. Your wants and desires seem to be in direct conflict with mine. So, my suggestion is “fresh” Seasonal Servers with a Paid Service to archive/save Seasonal Server Character Progress onto the respective Perma Server type. Is this something that you’re willing to do/sacrifice, yes or no?

Doesn’t really matter which way you answer, as long as you can find some level of respect towards my direction, we can start making some progress here. Because NONE of us, are getting what we want out this, period.

1376

Again… 333 > 202.

Blizz is ALREADY creating a massive amount of redundant servers by allowing all current servers to have a Classic ‘Vanilla’ era copy. Creating a few more isn’t going to cause any more harm than Blizz already intends to do.

At some point Blizz will have to merge or connect realms because the populations simply won’t warrant the number of servers we currently have forever.

Edit: I do actually support seasonal servers. I just think that should be implemented after we have gone through the initial cycle of the period of WoW Classic. For example, 6 months to a year after TBCC comes out, in my opinion, would be a great time to introduce season vanilla servers.