It is.
What “jumbled mess”? I mean agree, I have A LOT of Posts to get through.
You started it.
Likewise, but I WILL find that Post!
And, don’t worry, Gorrith, I see you! I’ll respond to you, later! Right now, I’m looking for a Post!
Lol, I appreciate the notion but you really need not do it. Just consider the points presented and hopefully make an effort to find a solution to both our problems - not just yours, at the detriment of ours.
To quote from another source:
"(Piper) [redacted] — Today at 2:30 PM
But, I’m not misguided 
The worst part is, I feel like we see eye-to-eye on many of the topics. You fundamentally oppose boosts - but here you are defending their position because of the expectation that blizzard won’t remove them. There was an expectation - set forth by Blizzard that there would be no RP realms. And now there are.
Another blast of irony is that I do not oppose Blizzard’s model of boosts. They will draw in more players and that is good. Fundamentally speaking, I would rather not have them and being offered a place without them would satisfy the playerbase that would return without the boost and the massive outcry of “anti-boosters” and the streamers which seem to agree - while keeping with their current model and satisfying those who like the boost and those would return for the boost.
I’m going to because you’re misrepresenting my position, anyhoot, I’m still looking for that Post, second.
^ added a caveat in my earlier post toward the end.
I found it 
That’s my Tauren Shaman!
I had no idea the Dwarf (I remember there was a Dwarf and Ziryus) I was arguing with back then is my good 'ol friend Donkles! That’s when Ziryus gave me the idea of the Copy & Paste idea! Then I rode on those coat tails about Blizz charging for the clones LOL
EDIT: So, THERE’S my “receipt”
And judging by the “posting style”, no doubt, that’s still ME LOL
You aren’t the OP, nor the driving poster in the thread. Some random poster who could be anyone talking in a big thread with hundreds of people in it not only proves nothing, looking at the thread itself also reinforces the fact that the thread was 99% of people wanting servers to progress naturally to TBC just like they did when the expansion released before.
Which proves how unpopular the concept is when the streamer/youtube element is taken out.
First of all, I agree that the “fresh” concept is “the Minority” Pool. I said that then, too.
Second of all, I told you I’ve been advocating (or at least wanting BC) to be “fresh” BEFORE the announcement, that is what you asked for. You didn’t ask me to be the Thread creator.
Third of all, my position has not changed. I still wish BC was “fresh”, alas it is not.
Fourth of all, I PROVED that I’ve been CONSISTENT, on my position the ENTIRE time, and it has not changed since.
EDIT: Catch ya later, Gorrith!
Really wish Blizz would fix the forums so you can ignore posters without having to reach a certain loyalty level so I could read this thread without seeing that troll’s novel length posts.
Anyway, really hope Blizz realizes the financial boon a fresh option would create. So many people wanting to experience the joy of leveling with hordes of other players, forming a community along the way.
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I would thoroughly enjoy this. I’d be happy even if there was only 1 fresh server of each type (pvp,pve,rp,etc) to gauge demand if blizzard really doesn’t think it’s something players want.
I am late to the party on classic and just started recently. (I played in vanilla but was very young so I played a lot and accomplished very little). I’ve got well over 200 hours in classic and am loving it even though the signs of the absolutely wacky enonomy are impossible to ignore.
That being said I would happily drop that progress to start fresh if there were servers that everyone had to do this on.
Anyways, hopefully this works and I’ll see you guys there. 
Cheers.
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Looking forward to it. And see you there too (hopefully!!)
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And you know this how? There were plenty in my circle who were. I’m pro fresh but not anti boost, and more like me Mr. know it all.
I don’t feel I’ve berated or bullied you Piper. Did I tell you to stop posting or else? We disagree on some points yes. I’m not going to stop discussing my feelings, you have the choice to ignore me as well.
So I make a post that isn’t directed specifically at you. You respond, I respond. This goes on for a bit. Now you say I’m pressing my point too much, that I need to move on?
Please, take your own advice before expecting others to.
Not unreasonable at all. I’d play those. Reason being, you add in a clone option for those who like to keep their time investment. 
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Wow, yet another poster who can read minds and speak for everyone else. I wonder where all these people get these mystic powers from? Is it something in the water? 
Thanks.
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Some people do. I don’t recall any cases of you berating anyone, and I feel I am respectful with everyone in here as well. But she is often put in a situation where she feels the need to defend herself. She projects that onto others as well sometimes with or without realizing it.
The hardest thing for me to reason with is how close some of our fundamental beliefs or desires are - yet we end up in some of these debates over semantics, or expected results based on assumptions that the decision makers will rule a certain way, or merely over fulfilling an expectation over pride and stubbornness. Many of these debates are valueless and merely boil down to people arguing about their own personal preferences than adding any real substance to the request originating the thread.
We want fresh! WE WANT FRESH! GIVE THE COMMUNITY WHAT THEY WANT! @Blizzard pls
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Does the fresh servers have boosting disabled? That would be the only way it would work.
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They must have some list in the Troll Discord that they just copy paste from.
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So you start off with telling people that what they want is wrong and that they should want something different (what you want). When they disagree you resort to semantics and association in an attempt to manipulate them into agreeing with you. When they still disagree and start to get annoyed at your obvious attempt at manipulation you cry victim.
Following the syllabus exactly I see.
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Now, that I’m done with yesterday’s project, today is a new day and as promised, I’m here to defend my position, as always.
First of all, thank you for the back-handed compliment. Second of all, I wear my intelligence as a “badge of honor”, yes
I am.
This, I disagree with. I have no desire nor interest in helping the botting community, whatsoever. And, to be fair, there’s constant changes to the current model, and none of it serves to counteract the Bots, at all. I would like to see changes that would counter bots WITHOUT having to change the obvious mechanics meant for everybody to use.
For example, eliminating higher levels from running low levels through dungeons is something I’m against which in turn may be “helping the bots”, but I assure you, that’s not my intention. And, I don’t think that just because something favors bots, doesn’t mean we can’t have it. I’m of the opinion, that Bots will follow the most populace of Servers. And, if “fresh” is as “popular” as it is being claimed that it is, there’s no doubt in my mind that the Bots will follow. Botting Services is a business, like any other business.
It needs an audience to advertise to. Just because I think Bots are going to follow the “fresh” crowd doesn’t mean that I think we shouldn’t get “fresh”. That’s silly.
There’s going to “opposition” in ANY situation whether one FEELS (keyword) like they’re “helping” or not. IK and understand this thread FEEL like they’re “helping” appease the “fresh” crowd meanwhile, they’re (also) hurting its opposition, in the process (via myself and others opposed to “fresh”, for their own reasons). What I don’t like is how you’re painting this picture that the “freshers” “matter more” than those against it. THAT’S what I don’t like.
And, I’m not saying non-Freshers “matter more”, I’m claiming Server Identity matters more. Server Identity is in line with what the “freshers” want “a sense of community”, but that gets lost, by the time Perma arrives, and we’re hit with CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc. We’re ALL after the same thing, here, and I don’t think creating NEW Server, after NEW Server, after NEW Server is the best solution in countering this. It just creates a much bigger problem than necessary, but I digress.
I’m not LOL
I have YET to see any COUNTER arguments (or even an EXPLANATION) that isn’t calling me a “troll”, “misguided”, “hurting”, “ignorant”, “stubborn”, “fool of it”, etc. ALL of the posts EVENTUALLY lead into this, and we get NOWHERE. I want an ACTUAL discussion discussing about the subject matter instead of MOST of it consisting of “Piper is a Troll”, “put Piper on ignore!”, “Piper doesn’t know what she’s talking about”, etc. I’m here to understand so help me understand in what the heck y’all are talking about!
And, please, STAY WAY from the ad hominems!!!
First of all, I am not. I’ve suggested MULTIPLE times about my support for Seasonal Servers which falls under the “fresh” concept. Not EXACTLY in the way this particular thread (and the NEW Server movement) is looking for. I 100% support Seasonal Servers.
I’m not. In fact, I am trying to protect these people! Especially, if they want to RETURN and play on Perma but thanks to NEW Servers advocates, the Perma Servers are now CRZ’d, Connected Realmed, Virtual Realmed, etc., something that wasn’t even a part of the ORIGINAL Classic toolkit. But because we’re appeasing the NEW Server advocates, that’s damaging the Perma Servers and turning on a feature that’s not exactly EVERYONE’S “favorite” feature. I’ve yet to hear anyone talk about how much they LOVE CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc.
I still don’t know what this even means. IK you keep bringing up the PvP aspect to it, but you have to give PvE examples that will help me understand what you’re talking about.
I can give you a PvE example in how the “equal footing” thing is utter nonsense. People with more time and patience is going to get AHEAD of me as far as leveling goes. Which is why I don’t understand this whole “equal footing” thing. It makes NO sense!
Oy vey. TBH, I really don’t care for the PvP Community, anyway, but I can still be objective about this. What do you mean by “fair combat”? Like a Server where ganking is less prevalent? Since, IK you’re on a PvP Server, and we’ve talked about this.
Exactly! Also, thank you 
Again, I’m NOT “misguided”. Even if I am, NOBODY is “guiding” me, in the “right direction” here. Instead, the ONLY thing that is happening are PERSONAL ATTACKS, and I’m sorry, personal attacks are not arguments. And, I’ve learned NOTHING other than your (general “your”, not you, specifically) opinion of what you think of me and would like to move on, passed that point and back to subject matter.
EXACTLY the point I’m making!!!
I understand that, however them failing to even realize the RP niche community, in the first place, has me worried about how long we’ll remain set as “RP”, later on down the line, the EXACT same way I feel towards “how long” until CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc., get implemented onto the Perma Servers.
IDK about that. Again, they could just remove the “RP” name and call us “Normal”, since Bloodsail Buccaneers (the ONLY non-RP PvP Server, BTW) abides by PvE Server ruleset, and we can easily be moved over onto a PvE Server. Seeing as how they failed to recognize the RP niche, in the first place and can easily “go back” on that, at any time. Same thing with Grobb and/or Deviate Delight. They can lose their “RP” name and just be considered “PvP” Servers, since those Servers abide by PvP Server Ruleset.
Though, these two COULD be linked, keep in mind (right now) on PvP Servers, you cannot have Alliance Characters on the same PvP Server, if you created Horde Characters on there. You have to DELETE those characters, in order to make Alliance ones. It would be a problem for somebody who has Alliance on Grobb and Horde on DD, until Blizz uplifts that Rule. Which is a Change I would support, actually. I’ve mentioned this, before (in my long list of “acceptable” Changes, IMO):
Along with:
You know…in case you befriend some PvE Server Player and trying to “drag them by their hair” onto PvP Servers
As of right now, there is only one single Normal Classic RP Server. We cannot be “linked” to anyone else. Personally, I’m OK with that. I feel there shouldn’t be too many duplicating servers and just consolidate down the Perma Server List to AVOID the CRZ stuff, but I digress.
PvP Servers are going to have a hard time being Server Merged, normally (not talking about CRZ connections) due to the one Faction per PvP Server rule, and I’ve already expressed my opinion on that.
I (also) play on more than one Server (Pagle, for example) and still want Server Identity because I like that close/tightnit feeling of Server Identity. I don’t really feel that, in the Standard Game.
There are benefits to it, yes. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean I didn’t (also) learn the COST of having such a privilege. In order to have such a privilege, it COST Server Identity. I’d rather have the Standard Game with those privileges and try to keep the Perma ones from becoming the same thing. Which is why I’m (also) advocating for Old World (pre-Deathwing Destruction) as a Leveling Option, in the Standard Game because (as of right now) Classic is the ONLY way to play Old World (pre-Deathwing Destruction).
And, the Standard Game allows for the story to “turn back time” (except Pre-Deathwing Destruction Old World, but I digress), for those who want to explore Teldrassil and/or Theramore before their downfalls. But, it’s upsetting that Old World (pre-Deathwing Destruction) isn’t something to “turn back time on” LOL And, we would have Standard Game Privileges while exploring Old World (pre-Deathwing Destruction). And, I think it wouldn’t warrant such a call to change so much about how the Game used to be, but I digress.
Finding “new travelers in the woods” isn’t my issue. My issue is the Server Name Tags slapped onto next to our names. I guess as an RPer (if you will) it pulls me out of the fantasy and into reality how I can’t always do something with somebody from a different server, like I can with somebody who is on mine via Trading Items back and forth, guild invitations and the like. Which is why I prefer ACTUAL server merges, to where I can do these things because it’s all encompassing in what makes this game this game, essentially.
Except for the part, where you cannot trade with them or even invite them to your Guild. Part of RPing (at least for me) is trading items to people. Giving “smaller” types of items a little bit more “value” than they’re actually worth. People have told me that they’ve kept those items they received from me because I gave it value. It meant SOMETHING. Something worth far MORE than band-aid solutions could ever do. Example items I would give: Peaceblooms, Fireblooms and Arthas’ Tears. They don’t sell for much, but their actual Icons are rather pretty, and I pass those around as RP gifts to as many people as I can, as a token of gratitude from my character.
Even if it’s not able to trade items between one another, there’s Gold, and I’ve given that out, too. Ofc, RP wise, handing out a couple of copper pieces at a bar party is still a fun experience, but I digress.
Correction! NEW Servers NOT Seasonal Servers. I 100% support Seasonal Servers! Also, it isn’t JUST the RP Community, but ALL of us. Even some (not all) non-RPers don’t want CRZ stuff.
When the question is asked “why would anyone be against NEW Servers?” I’m going to answer with my position.
When somebody asks “how do NEW Servers harm anyone?” I’m going to answer with my position.
When misinformation gets spread about to slander those against NEW Servers, I’m going to correct them and express my position.
I’m NOT the same person with the same talking points targeted by the NEW Server Mob only parroting around the same jargon and not actually think about how to DEFEND what they’re chanting about.
So, as long as people keep parroting the following:
-Why would anyone be against NEW Servers?
-How do NEW Servers harm anyone?
-Slandering those against NEW Servers
I’m going to respond, that’s just how it goes.
Otherwise, IDC if you ask for NEW Servers. I’ll make my one point about how I’m against them and move on. But, when you think you’re trying to be “clever” in doing ANY of the three (that I mentioned), I’m going to step in and help you better understand why anyone would be against NEW Servers, and how harmful NEW Servers are to Perma Servers. And, that you’re just wrong about how you feel those against NEW Servers are.
I’m NOT a “shill”, “troll”, “ignorant”, etc. And, I’m going to continue to defend my position, as long as this thread continues to mindlessly parrot the same jargon and have no idea what it actually means, until they’re challenged to the point of ad hominems.
Notice how I do not go there, and my fight is with NEW Server folks especially since what they’re doing is harmful, to me. And, I’ve expressed I’d be on the NEW Server train, if there’s a guarantee that Perma Servers won’t endure CRZ-ness. Until then, I won’t ever support NEW Servers.
Agreed.
I “interject”, when the ACTUAL misguided folks parrot the same three things:
-Why would anyone be against NEW Servers?
-How do NEW Servers harm anyone?
-Slandering those against NEW Servers
Again, I’m not. In fact, you are. I’ve repeated my stance, numerously throughout this thread, the entire time. I give very simple answers. Just because you don’t like those answers, doesn’t mean I’m trying to “fight” with you.
I will “fight” against the NEW Server idea, until Blizz or anyone can leak out any information regarding Perma Servers going to go through CRZ nonsense or not.
Stop insinuating that NEW Servers are “harmless” and slandering anybody peacefully sharing their stance on the subject matter. Or better yet, not get so angry, when somebody actually answers the question “why would anybody be against NEW Servers?”
I am. I keep asking how can we work together to avoid Perma Servers becoming CRZ’d and even created my own thread about it:
Again, I’m not. The best possible solution I’ve come up with other than asking for “no CRZ, please” are Seasonal Servers. Again, I’ve posted about this, many times, here’s one of them:
I’m realistic enough to know we’re not getting 100% what we want out of this. So, I’m asking NEW Server advocates to decide what’s REALLY important to them? NEW Servers? No Level 58 Boosting? Or, no Server Transfers?
I’m sorry, but you can’t have ALL three, it’s NOT going to happen.
We see eye to eye on MANY things.
No, I’m defending the Boost because of your position in trying to welcome new players into the fold which is PRECISELY why Blizz implemented the Level 58 Boost, in the first place! So, those who didn’t play in Classic but want that “equal footing” (so, you keep saying) have the Boost available. That’s the WHOLE reason WHY the Level 58 Boost is there.
Only reason why I don’t want the Level 58 Boost Feature is because it was not something that was really available (no, I don’t count RAF) back in BC. That’s it.
Correct, however they didn’t make many (thank goodness). Anyone interested in Normal RP and NOT RP-PvP, there’s only ONE Server to pick from and that’s Bloodsail Buccaneers. So, BB won’t suffer as badly as other servers will by the time Perma arrives. Even then, BB suffers from Faction Imbalance SO bad! GL being Horde on BB. The A/H Ratio is 80% to 20%. Guess there aren’t that many Horde RPers interested in a non-PvP environment
Mhmm.
I do see what you’re saying, but I don’t see them creating a Server without a Level 58 Boost. That battle has been lost.
And, I responded
Just goes to show, you don’t really frequent the forums much and misconstrue regular forum posters who aren’t misguided as “trolls”, when they dismantle your weak position on things, but I digress.
Calling me a “troll” every single time is berating and/or bullying me.
That’s not required to berate nor bully.
Mhmm.
You can do so without berating, bullying nor throwing out ad hominems.
Correct, but I’m not going to easily write you off as a “bully”, though. I think we can reach the point of a compromise, if you allow us to get there.
Actually, you did interject yourself into a conversation I wasn’t engaging with you, in the first place. I was conversing with another individual, and you decided to chime in (which is fine, you’re allowed to do that, just letting you know).
^ Right here, you interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with another person, and it didn’t involve you, but that’s alright. I wasn’t talking with you, to begin with. I only responded back because you started this “going back and forth” thing.
Except, the first response you got from me was after you interjected yourself into a conversation where I wasn’t engaging you, in the first place. So, how can you respond to something where I didn’t respond to you, first? 
Correct because I wasn’t even engaging with you, specifically, in the first place.
I am, and I didn’t engage with you, you engaged with me and started picking a fight with me.
Perfect! That’s YOU! There are some (not all) others that don’t like that idea and don’t think it fits what they’re looking for, and that’s OK, let’s try to figure out what will!
That’s MY compromise. If it were up to me, Seasonal Server Characters wouldn’t be saved, at all. The Paid Service Clone IS my compromise.
Mhmm.
They called me a Troll, interjected themself into a conversation that I wasn’t even talking with them about and only responding to the parts that they don’t like despite the other good things I actually do say.
Mhmm.
I don’t! OMG! LOL
If anything, I’m doing my best NOT to put people on the defensive, but I can’t help how some (not all) are going to respond to certain words because IDK them nor know what actually “triggers” them.
Why is that hard to “reason” with?
It’s not far fetched to know we all want the same thing, here. I’ve BEEN saying this, that I have been team “fresh” BC ALL along! HOWEVER, that battle was lost! WE lost! That’s something that WE have to accept, and I have.
Yes, this! Along with ad hominems.
Deductive logic and reason can point you in the right direction, though. This is how I figured out they would charge for Character Clones.
I said, IF they weren’t going to go the “fresh” route, that they’ll probably charge for Character Copies, if people want their progress bad enough. That is what I said VERBATIM!
Mhmm.
Mhmm. Many of the people in this thread don’t even realize their ambitions for NEW Servers come from different places, and that they’re not going to find the community they think they’ll find because of how different the goals every single person has, in this thread.
IDK about anyone else, but I’ve ACTUALLY read what people’s goals are, and it’s hysterical how different it all is.
LOL see what I mean? Anyone who reads the thread would know the OP is ASKING for the Level 58 Boost Feature to be “turned off” LOL
Anyway, IDK about the Level 58 Boost Feature being turned off is the ONLY way “fresh” would work, but I don’t think any NEW Server Blizz creates will turn off such a feature especially when it pertains to BC considering how most (not all) think Outlands is BC and that’s it.
I mean, I do own my Disc, but it’s mostly filled with people I usually disagree with
Nope, NEVER said that. Anybody wanting NEW Servers is NOT wrong nor ever will be wrong.
Nope, I’m asking them to figure out what’s actually important to them, and it still could be NEW Servers.
Nope. I respond in accordance into what is being said. I don’t “start” anything. If you think something is being “semantic” it’s usually because somebody ELSE brought it up.
Negative. I have no qualms in some (not all) thinking/believing (which isn’t the same as objective truth) I’m a “troll”, “shill”, “ignorant”, etc.
Nope, I point out the objective truth which is the constant beratement for saying one “wrong” thing and INSTANTLY being bombarded by you (yes, you specifically and others like you), harassed and bullied, that we’re no longer having a conversation about the original subject matter, at hand.
Nope, it is you lot, that can’t seem to stay on subject.
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This is one of those threads I set to auto-scroll to build up read counts for forum (trust level) reputation.
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