Very well put. I made a similar argument about the difference between “dead” servers and new servers with no cash shop conveniences on them, but it apparently did not explain the difference effectively enough.
Perhaps yours will. Well done.
I had either suspected something like this and/or something along the lines of the min/max crowd who need to have people who don’t care about their log parses to “compete” against to make themselves look better on the logs. Always easier to run a race against someone who isn’t running versus someone who will actually try to run against you.
Creating a few fresh TBC servers would create dead servers the same way people opting to stay in Classic would. It wouldn’t.
That being said, that argument is ridiculous. People claimed layering was necessary to prevent dead servers, and look, there are still dead servers. There will always be dead servers - even if the game has a very healthy population. The solution is for Blizzard to address that problem without being stupid about it. “We can’t make fresh TBC servers because maybe there will be dead servers” is just crazy.
Well put indeed. I just wish Blizzard paid one bit of attention to this topic. The economy is dead in Classic. Completely ruined for multiple reasons. I WILL NOT play if there are not fresh servers. I know no one cares if I don’t play and cut my sub. Blizzard should care, but not one response to this thread yet speaks volumes. The economy is so screwed if full gold and assets are transferred to TBC servers. I don’t like GDKP, and chose not to get involved with it after a few runs of AQ40 and I watched gold being thrown around in the thousands as if it were nothing. My priest is full T2 and Epiphany T3 with solid numbers, but when my guild members made excuses to stop guild raiding I found myself unwilling to play. I did log in from time to time, however, and found those guild members still raiding…but only in GDKPs. Most end-game raiders are running GDKPs now in some fashion, some ONLY running GDKPs. GDKPs are a plague that influences RMTs AND botting. I don’t care about anyone’s opinion on that. It is fact that GDKP runners in one way shape or form are part of gold laundering that originates from real life purchases from bots or people selling their OWN winnings from their GDKPs. The whole economy is DEAD. Fresh servers please, or I am done. Those who do not decide to CONFORM to the mandates of GDKP raid leaders or choose not to run GDKP are at a HORRIBLE disadvantage with TBC on the way and filthy rich GDKP runners ready for flight and more GDKP with buyers ready on the wings. Non-GDKP players haven’t a CHANCE to compete. And that is what I did in TBC OG. There wasn’t nearly all of this GDKP mess. Sure, maybe there was a GDKP or two in TBC. But no way in hell to this degree. I played TBC and don’t recall a SINGLE GDKP being run on my server. A far cry from constant, hundreds of GDKP advertisement in trade chat. If you want to compete with these GDKP moguls, go for it! I will NOT. No contention.
If you think so many people will leave their current servers to play on a fresh one that it will leave their server dead, then you need to acknowledge this is a damn popular idea. Blizzard needs to figure out the dead server thing.
It can be difficult to tell who is trolling and who doesn’t know they missed something obvious. Here are some thoughts, after all, on the difference(s) between fresh servers and taking over a dead one:
When did the server die? In Classic, I bet it was at least after the Ahn’Qiraj event. In Classic PvP, it sounds like all 6 phases have occurred, and one faction won. This means the gear to faceroll early dungeon and raid content is available. Want to take on MC? There’s no need to do it the old-fashioned way. Run Dire Maul and Zul’Gurub extra times to make up the difference. And et cetera.
Would you like a carry? Let’s say your hypothetical movement of the forum masses gets enough people to the dead server to apply goblin jumper cables. I chose that image deliberately, since the effort won’t necessarily work. Do you think all the characters from when it was alive transferred out? I doubt it, since that costs money. So the server shocks to life, and people already in progression start playing there again. Does that sound fresh to you?
“Man, this auction house is dead, like everything else. . .” until those same players start back up, with their gold intact, and the ability to make more with their 60s. That’s not a fresh economy.
Transferring to a dead server sounds like something I might enjoy, so long as it’s not a PvP joint where the other faction already won. But it’s not a fresh server. Some appeals might be similar, and that’s as close as it gets.
I’ll tell you what’s crazy.
Expecting players to start on a dead server with the current rule set. Expecting them to prove to you that there are enough players to warrant fresh servers, by starting over again. Then when they get your approval and the servers they seek are released they start over once more. Talk about jumping through hoops. The hoops in retail aren’t even this nutty.
Justifying your stance by insinuating that you are protecting Activision’s better interests, or you are saving these players from disappointment.
Really, if there were such servers, how would that negatively affect you?
And populating the perma servers is not even close to an answer. The players asking for fresh want to level with the new races and play in BC.
Yes, unfortunately there are quite a few “unauthorized-unofficial-Blizzard” representatives on the forums. I often wonder if they get paid to represent the company and its views or do they get some other perks in-game?
You and I have spoke ad nauseam about the prospect of fresh servers but I have to chime in here.
Saying we cannot have new servers because it puts too many servers on the perma listing (for fear of creating more dead servers, or killing off the dying ones) is a poor reason to thwart new servers and a failure in an effort to preserve the existing ones.
I get it. We should care about the servers that are there, because we do not want them to go to the way-side… A lot of people put in a lot of time and effort, care and attention, love and pain into these servers.
Fact is, this is a 16 year old game now. Whether or not there are new servers - World of Warcraft will have a decline in popularity over time. Many people returned for the nostalgia, many returned for the core elements, many returned for the social aspect, and many new players arrived to learn what all the fuss was about - but the game itself is not ground-breaking, new, or “fresh.” The decline is an inevitability.
Trying to protect older servers like this, especially with a potential influx of new players flooding in with the new expansion is only going to hurt the classic project as a whole.
If it is crippled too much, eventually it will not be worth the investment to keep it going. Granted, we are a long way from that point because there are still around half a million players actively logging in via US and EU servers alone daily (or more, that was just a recent metric I happened to see). But the bots already do a number on the game. The age and lack of interesting new content unfortunately do as well. We do not need players crafting artificial constructs intended to support old servers and their playerbase but acting as a deterrent for new players.
An unfortunate reality is:
Some servers are going to have to merge, or at least link&sync within the clouds. It may or may not come with server names attached behind player names (but I would advise blizzard to create an interface allowing us to turn this off because it would be very annoying and distracting to some - especially those on an RP realm).
I assume Blizzard will wait until the launch of TBC before consolidating existing servers, and possibly before releasing new ones. Afterall, they may expect the problem to resolve itself - at least in the case of some of the dying (but not dead) servers. New influx of players may help some of them.
I am not a huge fan of the aforementioned resolution, but as a player on a pvp server (the type that has the greatest disparity between opposing faction percentages) I would welcome the change if it were implemented in a way to balance factions more accordingly.
As callous as it sounds, it is not the player problem. It is a company problem. That does not make your earnest interest any less genuine. If anything it reflects well on you and your desire to help that which you are so very passionate about.
I will say, if it is any consolation to you - being that you are in a healthy, populated, one-of-a-kind server - you are probably the least likely to be directly impacted by new servers or Blizzards attempts to consolidate old ones.
What I’m saying is all these “dead” (even though, I don’t think they’re “dead” but some, not all, do) servers are going into BC. What you’re asking for is another EXTRA Server (and possibly more, since not everyone enjoys PvP, PvE, RP or even RP-PvP), to become “dead” later on, by the time Perma BC arrives. Just like we all know that Perma Classic will be “dead”.
Classic was “popular” in the beginning. That “fresh” appeal appeared and left, as the Servers began to “stale out”, now that “popularity” isn’t there, anymore. IK for a fact that “popularity” will return on those “dead” servers when BC releases. That isn’t the problem.
The problem is when BC becomes Perma. I don’t think it’s “crazy” to request NOT to create extra Servers just to clog up the Perma List, AFTER you (general you, not “you” in particular) lot have your “fresh” fix and ABANDON the Perma Servers to move onto the next “fresh” thing. Screwing over the Perma Server Players and not caring at all about the experience, they’re looking for.
And, I think they have, when they said they’re NOT doing “fresh” (at this time) because they probably see what I’m saying.
Which is why I keep saying:
I will NEVER support NEW Servers, EVER.
Nope, that’s just adding in QoL Features. I would much prefer Server Merges than just Server Names slapped upon our Names.
I was correcting the person’s quotation, since they used the word “we”.
Do you?
First of all, I don’t “expect” anything from the NEW Server crowd. IMO, I think y’all are too lazy to “fix” your own problems and asking Big Daddy Blizz to make the boo boo, go away.
Second of all, there’s nothing “crazy” to ask you lot to herd players sharing your same interest to re-roll on a Low Pop Server which is less infested with Bots than the High Pop Servers. You can’t have both. If “fresh” is as “popular” as you claim it is, than the Bots will follow. They have a market to cater to, and it’s the Servers with the “higher” population of folks.
Third of all, it’s not going to “warrant”, anything. I already know (like I said) NEW Servers are coming. They’re just NOT going to come out in the EXACT detail you’re hoping for via no Level 58 Boost Feature and Server Transfers. That’s NOT going to happen! Something ELSE needs to happen in order for the Level 58 Boost Feature to not be a thing, and that’s to not play BC, as they come out, in order for Blizz to “get the picture” and “reverse” the change.
It’s NOT going to happen with a simple re-roll project or even NEW Servers WITH a Level 58 Boost Feature and Server Transfers onto it. There needs to be a MUCH more unified community, in order to make that not happen. And, that’s NOT going to happen, either.
If you’re passionate about it, enough, you’d be willing to do so. Seeing as how you’re not (which coincides with what I said earlier about calling you lot “lazy”), doesn’t really surprise me.
I’m not “protecting” Activision’s “better interests”. Like you, I would’ve preferred that BC was completely “fresh” with ZERO ties to Classic whatsoever. It would’ve dissolved this issue of “fresh” vs “non-fresh”, AND there would be NO Level 58 Boost Feature needed! But, that’s NOT the route Blizz decided to go with. So, now we have this wonderful mess!
I am doing this. You (and I do mean you, specifically, along with “the others”) refuse to listen.
Will there be NEW Servers?
Yes.
Will these NEW Servers have the Level 58 Boost Feature?
Yes.
Will these NEW Servers be able to be transferred onto?
Yes.
You’re asking for THREE different things! Not ALL three of them are going to be check-marked. THAT’S what you’re not understanding.
I’ve explained this, SO many times! Extra Servers (despite me knowing that they’re coming, regardless) is damaging to Perma Servers.
It is an answer. Just because you don’t like that answer, doesn’t mean it’s not an answer.
And, it’s not really about “populating” them, per se. It’s about not having SO MANY extra servers, by the time Perma hits/arrives. It’s a very simple answer, whether you like it or not.
And, you will.
First of all, the New Races cannot even be Boosted. And, we are playing BC “fresh” or no “fresh”.
Second of all, IK for a FACT they’re going to provide NEW Servers (regardless, if I want them or not). But, don’t be upset, when you find out that the Level 58 Boost Feature will still be available, along with Server Transfers. Only thing that is “somewhat” “reset” on these NEW Servers will be the economy. And, maybe some “newer” community.
I don’t classify myself as “representing” for Blizzard LOL
Interesting theory.
I’m still waiting for my paycheck for having the opinions, that I do LOL
And, I (certainly) don’t have any in-game privileges. I never received a BC Beta invite. My max gold is 2kg (and IK more players have WAY more than I do), and the only “specialty” Pets or Mounts that I have is the Green Dragon Whelping (supposedly). It was a Birthday Gift, from a frien, in-game. I hosted a Birthday Party, in-game, for fun, and my friends are awesome and gave me some in-game items as “birthday presents”. So, am I guilty for having friends or creative to host a birthday party in game?
Otherwise, I’m not Raid Geared, really. ZG is the extent of my Raiding. Definitely WAY more players outgear me.
You’re welcome!
Yes, we have.
Sure.
Disagree with that. NOBODY has explained why my reasonings ar “poor” or a “failure” in preserving the existing ones. Y’all are just saying that and NOT explaining it!
Agreed, so I don’t understand why we need “fresh”.
I disagree. Blizz’s solution to overpopulation on certain Servers is Layering.
It’s not a “deterrent”. Hello? They have the Level Boost for this VERY reason! Remember, I started in BC and had no Level Boost. Blizz has done pretty well in trying to provide “catch up” mechanics for all New Players. NEW Servers isn’t that solution.
Yes, IK this. I’m encouraging Server Merges! BUT, is that something Blizz is going to do? That’s the REAL question! 'Cause they’ve NEVER done that. They usually do their CRZ, Connected Realm/Virtual Realm nonsense and not actually merge, anything.
What makes Classic, great for me, is that there’s no open world (not counting BGs) CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc. As one who doesn’t even PvP, the PvE portion IS affected by CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtuals Realms, etc. Server Identity will become lost, and I don’t want that! I much prefer Server Merges without the Server Names slapped onto next to our names and just creating resentment towards “those Servers” that don’t share the same Server name, as you do.
Correct, but what do you mean by “consolidating”? I’m not going to assume “server merges”. I’m assuming CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc.
Mhmm which is another reason we shouldn’t have such an influx of Servers.
You keep saying this, but I really don’t understand it, and don’t think we should add NEW Servers to appease the PvP Server hype. That’s just one target demographic.
IK it’s not, but it should be because this includes ALL of us!
Pretty much everything in this game is the company’s problem. That’s not the argument.
The argument is how much do people really care about Perma Servers? So far, seems like nobody which is a shame. I want some FORESIGHT! I want to discuss what Perma means to everybody, first BEFORE we discuss the Reactive. Let’s be PROACTIVE!
I am passionate about this, and it’s never going to stop.
I disagree with that because they didn’t have RP and RP-PvP Servers, BEFORE. As this thread keeps reminding me. They could very easily just say “OK, no more RP!” And just classify us as PvE and PvP Servers and stick us with the other Servers.
I prefer ACTUAL Server Merges (which is something, historically, they’ve NEVER done) and NOT Linked Servers (via their CRZ nonsense, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc).
See, this is how IK people aren’t reading everything I’m ACTUALLY saying. Not only am I against NEW Servers, I’m against CRZ, Connected Realms, Virtual Realms, etc. Classic (so far) doesn’t have that, right now. I like playing the game this way, and I don’t want Permas to become CRZ’d, Connected Realmed, Virtual Realmed, etc., and we’re basically running around with our Server Names attached to our Names and Server Identity is gone!
I made a Post talking about this and linked it, already, in this thread, but I’ll do it, again:
My position on this subject has been consistent. You’re NEVER going to change my mind, unless you can (somehow) promise that Perma Servers will NOT be CRZ’d, Connected Realmed, Virtual Realmed, etc. Until then, I will NEVER support NEW Servers!
I would prefer they would hold off the Transfers to at least phase 2. if the server gets started in pre patch. Could hold off boosts until TBC start. I would sooner die on the Holding off transfer hill over boosts.
As much as I don’t want NEW Servers, I’m realistic enough to know it’s going to happen. Not EXACTLY in the way the majority of this thread is hoping for, but I can agree that NEW Servers is happening.
In regards to Blizz’s response regarding “fresh”, I think they mean Seasonal and not exactly NEW Servers. It wouldn’t make sense to say “not right now” to NEW Servers, but it DOES for Seasonal!
Blizzard is nothing if not oblivious to the things players ask for at times. I could see them saying a week or 2 after TBC that a fresh server launches to “help” with the PvE realms and it would just turn into a transfer target server. I can see that happening for sure
Honestly i think that blizzard is looking to do New Classic Servers for seasonal to keep the idea moving. Why else would you bring the person who was running that system on EQ? I kind of wonder if this is going to turn into APRG style where the classic forever servers are going to turn holding Pen for all the “Seasons” (whatever that means) for future Classic Projects.
