60 ilvl of titanforging? Seriously?

Community General Discussion
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I was doing some casual content today, and got a piece of gear that would usually be ilvl 360 from that source. Instead, it titanforged all the way up to 420, higher than mythic raiding gear. This seems moderately ridiculous.

The chances of warforging by 5 ilvl can’t be higher than 30%, based on having seen scores of warforges out of hundreds or maybe a few thousand drops this expansion. If the chances of each 5 ilvl of forging are the same, a 60 ilvl forge - 12 steps - should happen once in a million drops. Once in maybe a thousand drops seems way too high.

I see a couple possibilities for what’s going on. Either the chances of an additional 5 ilvl of forging goes up with the increasing levels of forging, which seems a really bad idea. Or, there’s a bug in the algorithm.

I hope it’s a bug. The most likely bug is that Blizzard is using a linear congruential (LC) random number generator, and making repeated calls for each level of forging. LC random number generators generate runs of results in the same range that are either too long, or too short (depending on the parameters used, but it’s a one or the other thing; you can’t select parameters that fix this). Blizzard is probably using one that generates too many runs. As a result, 60 ilvl forges, which should be one in a million, end up being maybe one in a thousand or something like that.

There is a simple fix to this. Instead of calling the random number generator repeatedly to determine whether there are multiple forges, call it only once, and use that single random number to look up the level of forging based on the precalculated chances of each level of forging. For example, if the chance of each level of forging is 30%, don’t call the random number generator once per level, checking if the result is less than 0.30 each time; instead, call it once, and if the result is less than 0.30, it forges, if it’s less than 0.30 squared, which is 0.09, it double forges, if it’s less than 0.027, it triple forges, etc.

If the forging algorithm works the way I think it does, that should make highly forged items much rarer, reducing complaints about forging. If instead high levels of forging are actually a design feature of the game, I strongly suggest that this be reconsidered; frequent high levels of forging can make normal sources of high ilvl equipment seem pointless.

Bottom line: high levels of forging are too common; please fix.

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Or you can enjoy the piece of gear knowing mythic raiders will still have a higher average ilvl.

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I got a piece in legion that titanforged 50 ilvls, it happens. Good for casual noobs critting titanforge on wq weapon drops, makes Mythic raiders feel good hey.

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One of our Hunters got 425 from his Darkshore Warfront Quest, though they weren’t his stats.

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It definitely needs to be toned down.

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show me a profile of someone who only does LFR and warfronts with a mythic raiders ilvl. If it is indeed as prolific as you claim those profiles should be easy to find.

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Would definitely take some digging since I don’t play anymore due to systems like forging. There was a thread a while ago where players that had toons that were LFR only that was Mythic ilvl while Uldir was the main raid. Hell there was a player that didn’t even do LFR and was 385 ilvl.

Thing is though that’s not my argument as to why I think it needs to be toned down. But the point you’re trying to make out to be false actually happens in BFA.

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It’s not a bug. Every time you get a piece of gear, it rolls for a warforge. If it gets it, it rolls again. If it gets it, it rolls again for titanforge. If it gets it, it rolls again. Etc. The chances lower each time. But it can essentially get all the way to the ilvl cap if you get extremely lucky.

The chances of that are astronomical though.

Blizzard explained this when they first added the titanforging system. The chances of someone having this happen more than once is so rare that you’d likely have a new expansion come out first.

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Burden of proof is on you. Plus with M+ it gives an alternate gearing path over raiding in general due to cache loot having a higher chance to WF/TF.

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Are you the type of person that can only enjoy something if you can lord it over others? Do items only have value to you if they’re better items than what others can get? I mean, it’s fine if that’s true, but if it’s not, I’d like to know other reasons why you’re like that. It would be enlightening.

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and? who cares really. I will still kill them in pvp

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What you ask of is impossible since a new raid is out, gear has been upgraded and armories are updated. I can provide the thread though since I just found it. Something to note as well on my end was the players were +380 ilvl. Which is just shy of Mythic ilvl by 5 ilvls at the time.

And I’m aware of Mythic + too. I’m all for alternate paths. But getting a Mythic ilvl piece of gear from trivial content just felt bad to me.

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or we can just buy them in the auction house and have the same ilvl? your point?
you don’t have to do mythic to get high gear.

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I do love how everyone spins it into “You don’t like other people getting high gear” when people say anything negative about WF/TF or getting cache/quest rewards for ridiculous ilvls.
Have you ever thought the it might be the player not enjoying “themselves” getting the inflated gear?

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Has nothing to do with me wanting to flex on others. Keep in mind all I said was that it needed to be toned down and then Eret brought up LFR and warfront only players into the fold. Which is not my reasoning behind my dislike for the system.

I just hate random gear progression. There’s no buildup leading up to a piece of gear to drop for me to be excited over. There’s no vendor for me to work get currency and map out when I get my Conquest weapon. And there’s no currency that I can use to get upgrades to my gear. It’s all RNG. For me to go in and kill a Mythic boss, get a drop and then get the same ilvl for completing an invasion doesn’t feel fulfilling to me. Which this did happen to me.

This created a “what’s the point” feeling when doing progression because at the end of the day I could achieve the same ilvl with much less effort. And for me, content that I find to be trivial both in how easy it is to complete and how little thought there was put into it like Warfronts, Island Expos, Warmode, and even Mythic + topped off with the Artifact Power grind reset just burnt me out after 1 raid.

Right?

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It is a bug if the odds against it are supposed to be astronomical, but they actually aren’t due to limitations of the random number generator. Given in the first three minutes of this thread, we have someone who got a 50 ilvl titanforge, two people mentioned 25 ilvl titanforges to 425 which might have gone higher if that’s the titanforging cap, and me with a 60 ilvl titanforge, I’d suggest it’s not as rare as it’s supposed to be. I doubt this thread got an astronomical number of views in the first three minutes.

The jargony stuff I wrote about LC RNGs explains how this bug could happen. I probably used too much jargon for a nontechnical audience, but it should make sense to Blizzards random number generator expert - assuming they have one, which they should. If they read this, they should be able to fix the problem.

If the system were working as intended, our orc warlock friend would be correct that people shouldn’t be able to gear to mythic ilvl without doing mythic level content. As our human hunter friend points out, in fact a fair number of people did get to mythic ilvl by the end of the last patch without doing mythic level content. That again suggests that the titanforging system is not working as intended.

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TBH I would love RNG to give me a 2H weapon of 420 ilvl. :blush: That said, I see what you’re saying…

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On a whole. It seems like no. How many other items do you know those other players have got the were titanforge? Besides my weapon (still dont know how +5 ilvl from the chest is a titanforge) its one of three items (that were upgrades) i’ve received so far that actually titanforged. But i actually am happy because now if a weapon drops in BoD i can give the weapons to guildies.

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Not a bug. But on principle, trivial content shouldn’t be able to award someone with “the best loot” in the game.

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AWESOME, this is what I’m shooting for!

I also totally support that.

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