I don’t know I can’t say I saw the negative effect while playing Draenor myself.
Plus, I don’t care how people block others from doing content. It is all the same no matter if you use ilvl, raider io, armory information, or specific gear it all amounts to the same thing: Blocking people from group content is a thing and has always been a thing.
Edit: Have a good evening! I have to head out.
(Because you never had to leave your Garrison?)
Jokes aside, hindsight is 20/20; players get smarter and more clever each year. WOD was the first expansion that really just gave players everything for free, essentially. BFA is trending that way.
Thanks for the chat. Even if we disagree, it’s nice to see a different point of view.
Nah, I said 10pc is more like 370, because it’s a good baseline to use.
And if someone got a 13pc out of 10pc roll, congrats to them. (385 out of a 370)
And if someone got a 20pc out of a 10pc roll, congrats to them, but feels a bit generous to hand that many McNuggets. (420 out of a 370)
If you start out with 13pc and roll a 16pc, that’s the same chance as going from a 10pc to a 13pc, and I’m okay with that. It’s a rare bonus, but it’s achievable and still feels good to get.
If you start with a 18pc and roll that into a 20pc, that’s even more common than going from 10pc to 13pc. And that is totally fine with me.
But I’ll stress it again, if the bonus is too big, it feels overly-generous and I dislike that.
Is this a non-troll reply? You are okay with doing the same amount of work as other people and having RNG carry you higher just because you were lucky?
This is actually sad to even read… and it’s coming from an employee lmao
Yes, I understand. You dislike that lower ilvl stuff from invasions creeps up into the range of rewards from higher difficulties. You look at 370’s or 385’s and see the sheer possibility that it can forge to 425 and you pop a blood vessel in your forehead because you think it’s overly generous. I see it and realize that the average player isn’t going to ever get a 425 from any source let alone one from a 370 or 385 and I’m happy for them for getting a lucky forge.
Whelp, hate to tell you…
It’s fine they get these bonuses. I simply think it’s over-generous. Over-generous rewards make other parts of the game feel worse.
How, does it make it feel like that?
Are you unfamiliar with what “the average player” means? It doesn’t mean one cherry picked example among millions of players that doesn’t even forge to 425. What, exactly, in that anecdote contradicts what I said? You hate to tell me what? That I’m right? lol. How does that post demonstrate the average player is pulling 425’s from content they’re doing due to forges? Oh, that’s right, it doesn’t. Are you getting sleepy? Maybe a little caffeine would do you good. You’re making even less sense than you do normally.
Whether or not it’s overly generous is subjective. It’s not factual. And your opinion isn’t one the devs share nor do I believe the bulk of the population cares. And I’m happy for that 
Guaranteed high-level rewards ensure you need a stupid amount of luck on your RNG bonuses. This devalues content you’d normally play at (given it’s less than 400 for the typical rewards). In addition, hopefully the item has at least 1 ideal secondary. (Getting a 425 ring with your worst stats would generate mixed feelings).
Plus, the bonuses (+30 and higher) are incredibly rare. Limited those to just +15 and it wouldn’t have much impact on the system, but it would completely remove mega-jackpots.
You didn’t even need AOTC to get a heroic cache. You needed 15 boss kills on normal. 15 heroic kills would give you a mythic cache.
I don’t really see the problem with these rewards though. Getting a heroic piece once every 2 weeks doesn’t break the game. Before this sort of thing was around, people would just pay to get carried through heroic raids (which was and still is very easy). GDKP runs were a big thing in expansions prior.
I mean, if wanna play that game again, the base item level for that trinket is 360. It rolled +60. That’s higher than the +55 from 370 to 425.
It doesn’t happen often. So, removing it shouldn’t impact anything, right?
Sure, just like BFA is a worse version of Legion. Subjective, or factual? Doesn’t matter. Perception does matter, though.
A few of the devs I’ve talked to have very different opinions regarding a variety of topics, including Master Loot and Titanforging. No one I’ve talked with likes how Master Loot is completely gone. And the responses on Titanforging were very “but it feels good, right?” It’s one of the only topics they’ve actively not talked about – and they usually talk about whatever comes up.
FWIW, these are folks on class design, systems, engineering, and QA/UX. QA/UX was universally against the current systems.
On top of Mythic+ caches. And the typical bonuses you get from whatever else you do. Just this past week I got 3 minor upgrades, all from caches. I went from 392 to 395 and I have yet to raid this week. My Mythic+ cache was a dud, it didn’t roll high enough.
It all adds up, that’s the bigger issue. In a vacuum, the systems are fine. But together, it’s too rewarding.
I don’t see why doing more stuff shouldn’t have more rewards. Raiding shouldn’t be the only way in the game to get gear. I personally way prefer M+, the only reason I am raiding at all right now is to get Bwomsamdi balls so I can craft my 415 gear, and maybe get some residuum from DEing raid azerite gear.
I still find it kind of annoying that raiding is the only way to get these things, because really, I find raiding just a great deal of standing around, waiting for the worst players in your group to finally get it.
I’d like to see a 3rd endgame progression route myself. Something that is solo-focused. I don’t buy into the “raid or die” mentality we had during WOD. Mythic+ was a good addition too.
I’d just like to see rewards be relative to difficulty. It’s really that simple. Trivial content should give trivial rewards. The toughest content should give the best rewards.
Sure. I feel the worst offenders in this regard are world bosses and warfronts though, rather than titanforging. I think people vastly exaggerate the amount of people running around with 415 trinkets from world quests.
Titanforging serves a purpose which is to keep old content semi relevant. In that respect I think it’s a valuable addition to the game. But sure getting a guaranteed 400 for killing a world boss that dies in under a minute is too much reward for too little effort. Warfronts are basically the new equivalent of the Garrison gear quest. It’s impossible to lose, it just takes 10 minutes of AFKing to get it now.
Again, how does that example demonstrate my point is wrong? What do you hate to tell me? Answer that. You hate to tell me … what? That you just stuck your foot in your mouth?
Now to your deflectionary point. How high it forges isn’t relevant. It doesn’t matter if it was 300 ilvl and it forged to 425. The chance is so rare it’s almost statistically nonexistent. Almost. And for those lucky few, congrats to them. I’m highly entertained by the sobbing tryhards who are angry about it forging to those levels.
I mean, you know the difference between subjective and objective right? What matters more than perception? Reality. And the reality is the bulk of the playerbase isn’t freaking out about forging. A tiny segment of the population is. A very loud tiny segment.
I’m not certain how you expect me to respond to claims that you talk to the devs and they’ve personally expressed they have an issue with things. You have no way of confirming any of that information. I have no reason to take you at face value as you’ve demonstrated you’re more than happy to play coy, deflect, or be intellectually dishonest in the discussion. Beyond saying their official stance is not one that looks like they’ll be walking back from forging anytime soon there’s really nothing to say here. If you actually have anything that you can reference that supports your claims I’d be happy to read it.
Edit: Early day tomorrow, it’s been fun, til then!
Are you saying that getting a titan forged 425 LFR ring is devaluing Mythic content? Just to be sure im understanding correctly.
WF/TF is part of the greater problem, so to speak. Those mega-jackpots are pretty rare. I don’t see the harm in reining them in. For example, if you were doing a WQ and got 395 leggings (+35 TF), and you already had 400 ilvl pants, would you be happy you got a +35, or would you feel it was wasted on the wrong item? You’ll probably never see a +35 or better for the rest of the expansion.
If the cap was +15, and you got a 415 piece from Ivus, would you happy that you got a BiS piece? Given you would never touch Mythic raids. Knowing “this is the piece item available to me” would feel really good.
Sure I think +30 or higher titanforges are so rare that you could get rid of them and it wouldn’t really impact anyone’s gameplay a great deal, but I think the possibility of such a huge payoff is why the system works. It’s the same reason that tens of millions of people play the lottery each week despite them being a 100 million to 1 long shot. Just the possibility creates excitement. Nobody’s playing the lottery for a chance to get 4 numbers and win $25. They’re in it for the big one.
In this sense I think it explains why Blizzard doesn’t really want to get rid of titanforging. It’s possible they agree entirely with you that +50 titanforges are over the top and possibly bad for the game, but they happen so rarely that’s a worthwhile tradeoff to accomplish their goal of getting people to repeat content they’d otherwise have no interest in.
First of all they aren’t label with welfare anywhere on the items and 2nd of all whats mindless to you is not mindless to others.