I guess you are right.
Sticking over 20 faces on the ui will be a damn circus nonetheless.
I suppose it could’ve been done then, I am coming from a perspective of nostalgia to many of these issues.
May this not have a snowballing effect on the changes if they decide to do it though.
People are begging for it on custom games, so it is an issue that will have to be solved anyway.
At least I will be there fighting with you. 
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I have major doubt that the cap was deliberately intended to prevent selection - I’d bet it was done because unlimited selection was a lot of work and a larger cap on the original UI would’ve made the icons too small. It’s not a mechanic, it’s a UI deficiency.
- First, weekend warcraft players are players and their opinion (and money) is as valuable as yours.
- Secondly, I don’t think you understand how strongly this cap is disliked - for lots of players this is the #1 issue with WC3. Personally, I’d be happy to trade UUS for letting you win every other decision. This product caters to many groups, and the large group that want to change it care far more about this single issue (proportionally) than those that oppose it.
- It’s not about attack-move. It’s a mental thing, a cap just feels arbitrary, wrong, and forces you to waste mindspace thinking about it.
- While rare, it’s possible to imagine many occasions when it’s useful for skilled players to select huge numbers - need to quickly TP home with a huge army including piles of skeles, drag-selecting them once and moving towards your hero is fastest. Mass worker attacks. Mass gyros. These things happen occasionally.
- As UUS is standard in modern RTSes, it stands out as a glaring deficiency. If custom games get it, switching from custom to melee will also make it stand out.
- A well designed selection UI should be user customizable to cater to the user’s preference. That means if you actually want a cap, you should be able to get it. You should also be able to choose regarding scrolling, icon-scaling, grouping, etc.
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look to cs2 and how group control is ruining this game since people likely using Dead Ball. In War3, the number of units not make this happen, but it could affect the balance (at least in low-level skill players). Without unit cap and low micro skill, people will prefer to choose Undead with mass ghoul and skeleton, if i have the same level as them, i would be dominant by this. Imagine, Blizz will fix this case by neft some units in Undead, but pro undead player will suffer, and a lot of butterfly effect that we can not expect could change the war3. We can remove it in a custom game (in the end, people will play a game for fun), but not in a standard or ladder bnet game.
******* hell, this god **** issue just won’t die, will it?
I say… don’t change it. Classic fans will get over it and new players can learn to like it. As for potential players who say they don’t like it, well then they won’t like the upkeep, the four unique races who are far harder to balance than say Starcraft, or simply the general learning curve the basic gameplay has.
I’ve tried to introduce Warcraft III and other RTS’s like Starcraft, Total War, and even Dungeon Keeper to other people and I can say that the ‘wider market’ for RTS is small and those in it are already playing or at least are willing to play classic games like the aforementioned. Those who complain about tiny details like the unit cap, tend to still not like Starcraft II for different reasons anyway. I don’t think removing the 12-unit cap will really effect the market on this one.
As for the mechanic, it was intentional. I remember Blizzard discussed that while games command and conquer did have unlimited control at the time, they wanted to force micromanagement in their games for the gameplay. Thus warcraft I and II had unit caps. They did raise it over time, but there is a function for it. The one game they removed it was Starcraft II, and while I like Starcraft II, it plays completely different to WCIII, and one such mechanic is the unlimited unit selection. Experienced Starcraft players will use command keys, but new players will always just deathball it. You don’t see that problem in Brood War, and the selection limit is one of the reasons.
Even if you added unlimited control, I don’t think it would work as well as you all think. Warcraft III’s pathing is dated. The units move in formations, spread out too. The games are slower and simply put, it isn’t as smooth as SCII. If Blizzard would remove the cap there are many problems which could occur, some they could attempt to fix, but then it might not feel like Warcraft III at that point, and ultimately that is what Reforged is about. Sure they’re polishing the campagin, but the gameplay should be the same, including formations, upkeep, and of course the unit cap.
Warcraft III should be Warcraft III.
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We should discuss ideas for implementing UUS on the UI somewhere.
My idea would be that:
- There’s a single rectangle for units - maybe configurable, not sure.
- There’s an page in the options menu dedicated to selection UI, with:
- Optional maximum units.
- Minimum and maximum icon scale.
- Group-by-unit-type options:
- Minimum number of units.
- Health display: Least, most, or average.
- Mana display: Least, most, or average.
- Expand on click?
I’d say that you shouldn’t be able to cast single-target spells on a unit-type-group icon.
Many classic fans will continue to hate it, and keep nagging (and maybe leave).
New players will hate it, and many will just leave.
Lots of people hate selection cap (UI issue) but are totally fine with upkeep (gameplay mechanism).
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I’ll agree, the formation issue needs considering. IIRC it’s pretty much only about getting the correct positioning at the destination. I don’t imagine it will be very hard to extrapolate the current positioning algorithm to unlimited units, although it might need some testing and tweaking.
Also, attack-moving lots of control groups together usually works without any major calamities (although I agree it’s far from perfect), and moving a single large group shouldn’t be any worse, unless someone really screws up the algorithm.
I hope they will remove this cap, i would love what moders can do in custom maps with this limip removed, i spent xxxx hours in custom maps W3 and i loved it. but i would understand if they would make 2 options 1. 12 cap limit for multiplays competetive and then no cap for anything else… i would just love to play this game, campaign and others with no cap :).
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yes, please, they must remove the unit cap, because somedays you log in to play some wc3 and just wanna chill, test some strategies, not micro as best as you should. i think from a casual player point of view, the game would be more enjoyable and less punishing for not being on point all the time (which it is, even if it punishes you with tiring your hand haha). please blizzard
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I disagree, removing selection cap will have an enormous affect on the gameplay. It forces players to use strategic positioning which is very big deal in the warcraft franchise. If you’re not used to it you’ll learn to appreciate it. If you don’t like it then there’s other strategy games like SC2 where all you have to do is a-move. I also wrote about this in my own thread Thoughts about wc3 changes
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I’m a so called veteran, as I played WCIII for over ten years. I can’t go back to the selection cap of 12. I’ve tried, but it’s too dated and frustrating. Whether I buy this remaster depends solely on the removal or expansion of the cap.
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How can you say that about Starcraft? Have you seen high level play? Jeez
I think you should revisit the game. You seem to forget that the armies in WC3 are not of the same size as in SC2. In WC3 you will never exceed 3-4 unit groups (36-48 actual units). The whole game revolves around micro management, it is what makes warcraft warcraft and not like every other strategy game ever made (excluding dow2). Also unlike starcraft units don’t move aside when colliding which is what allows us to body block. If you have all units in one selection you will have massive body block issues, units will run in opposite direction to your move order because they will get confused by all the blocking obstacles, and aoe spells will become even more dangerous than they already are. New players will never learn to play the game properly and be unable to multitask on the map… The list goes on.
Yes I have and even though starcraft 2’s micromanagement has improved through out the years it has never been it’s foundation. What made the warcraft franchise different from the starcraft franchise has always been the tactical micromanagement rather than economic strategy. A smaller cheaper army can easily defeat a bigger more expensive army in wc3 as it comes more down to how you use your units.
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I’m a little torn on this personally. I think it would be worth testing bumping it up to like 16 or something. I don’t like the idea of unlimited selection though because then you can’t see the faceplates and it would be too hard to cast holy light etc
Yep! Increase it to 16 or 18, or even 20. Some cap should exist, for the information cards. 12 is just stupidly small.
But that will only happen if you select more than wgat a page can show, this is a situation that can’t even happen with a cap, you wouldn’t even have the unit selected.
- They already do that.
- They have 16 years of guides and clips to learn stuff, people can do crazy multi point attacks in SC2 which has it easy and they don’t have to be good, new player should have fun first.
- If the list goes on, keep going.
i feel like some people easy forget that the 12 unit limit is one of the reason many old player stop playing and some just went custom game with single target unit games! and if we want new players we need push to remove unit limit but if they wont remove it! i wuld push for 30 unit limit becus then you are sure they wont feel to restricted
its abit more a nostalgia view when you want to keep 12 unit limit becus that meens that you know how to micro well does not meen everyone like to micro units!
but if they want to go pro they need to micro unit
and story mode kinda teaches you to micro units anyways
and dont forget 12 unit limit is not the core mechanic!
if you think you get to many units with you mouse then you forgot its not hard to use the mouse to make a smaller group!
the defensive state on this does not really give good points to keep the 12 unit limit becus the argument can easy be turned around thats why we say that you dont come with a good reason to keep it! the developers are already considering diffrent ladders for this anyways in the Q&A he had so we just need to wait for a answere from them!
as i gona say again 12 unit limit kinda discourage new players and some old players to return to the game!
we kinda need new players to stay longer
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