I would love to see the 12 unit cap gone! This is not just a mechanic to bring in new players. I have played wc3 from the start and to have it gone would be absolutely amazing!
I have seen the arguments a few times in this thread “you should never really have more control groups than two” or “wc3 is a game where you need to be good at controlling small groups of units” so how on Earth would removing the 12 unit cap effect competitive play in a negative way or even much at all if that’s the case! You would now have them Newbz with a 24 unit control group not microing small enough unit groups to keep up with you Leet 12 unit control group pros.
I just personally feel like keeping to 12 units is a bad design choice that is putting a restraint on the way many players would like to enjoy the game. It should not really have negative effects on competitive play. Also it should not lower the skill ceiling just lower the bar to entry. Wc3 without a 12 unit cap is still going to be a micro intensive game just with a little less redundant micro for some play styles a huge quality of life improvement.
Please please please atleast consider some kind of compromise!
I seriously hope the likes you have got are sarcastic, because… You know, nothing in that post just makes any sense. Comparing basic movement keys to a artificial limitation has nothing to do with each other.
Now that you brought FPS games, are a bit more appropriate comparison would be mouse-look. Imagine if a new FPS game didn’t allow mouse-look, but instead you would have to use arrow keys to move and turn and press alt to strafe, like in Doom back in the days. How many new players you think that game would have? The first thing they did when you download some mods to Doom is to allow WASD movement and mouse-look.
This still has the difference that not having mouse-look makes the game also a lot harder, whereas removing/having the 12-unit selection cap does not make the game any harder or easier. Having it just makes it more annoying - especially to new players who have not used to such stupid, dated restrictions.
It’s not a game mechanic, it’s (artificial) technical limitation, that is not needed with modern PCs.
No you do not remove/change collision boxes. How you use the units and surround is core of war3.
I am against a select all army key (F2), and removing collisions is a big No-No. This is not WoW, not Dota/HotS and not SC2, it is why collision matters so much for micro.
And control can be increased above 12 but still use controls, not 1 select all army F2 key. Player should handle at least this. I know majority are casual but these things would affect the core of Multiplayer. Not even going to comment that further.
I’m a Warcraft 3 veteran who has played thousands of ladder games and I’m in favor of adding unlimited unit selection to melee and custom games.
Unlimited unit selection would be a great Quality of Life improvement for melee as well as custom games.
Moreover, it wouldn’t significantly affect the game balance for highly skilled players.
I don’t think we need F2 in warcraft 3. It was necessary in SC2 because as a Protoss player i found it hard to have to select my whole army while mashing my face against the keyboard…
Please do this, I was so excited when they remastered Starcraft, but then having to deal with the unit cap again killed it for me, so I maybe spent an hour or two playing a game I was super excited for originally. I loved Warcraft 3 growing up, but after playing Starcraft 2 I can’t play Warcraft 3 anymore because the unit cap is so frustrating. I don’t care if having control groups is more competitive, or more true to the original, I just want to be able to play Warcraft 3 again and actually enjoy it.
Now this is a silly harsh opinion and I apologize a bit…
But claiming that the unit cap is what makes you not enjoy the game… now that is how you spot a weekend Warcraft player.
W3 is THE most micro-focusedRTS, up to a point where I’d say it is an RPG where you build a base on top of commanding a small force of units (that is how it was developed after all - trivia).
The unit cap represents a major game mechanic and design philosophy, that is a staple feature in your playthrough… i think having full no-limit or even worse… select whole army button, is completely alien to this particular game.
That being said, what Grubby seems to be suggesting and what would certainly feel like it belongs into Warcraft is the increase to 16, or up to 20 unit cap.
This way the units could still be displayed as they are now with dignity, while allowing for a bit more “comfort”.
Honestly though (sorry once again)… if you are trying to select all your units and attack move on the other side of opponents army… you are doing it wrong my friend. This is Warcraft III.
i have played tens of thousand of wc3 games in the past and never once have i gotten annoyed by the unit caps. if anything, it makes the game more fun to play and to watch. it adds a slight layer of skill and beauty. it feels great to master and really rewarding.
People saying removing the cap doesnt change the game flow have no idea how wc3 works. imagine 2 big armies get sent across the map and meet, the noncapped player selects all and commands to attack, but the capped player has to select 2 groups, so the seconds groups attack is slightly delayed. player a gets more hits and wins.
wc3 is no deathball a-move instant-win game. its supposed to be slower AND more micro intense. multiple groups add a slight delay to actions which is vital to the flow of battles.
if you can studderstep and retreat 24 units at once during fight, and none are delayed, it extremly effects the dmg AOE does now. like blizzard, rain of fire, aso. cause more units would be hit if capped.
if you delete caps you destroy the game completely. people saying it makes no difference have no clue about the depth of wc3 mechanics. this is my game and i will not have it. my decision is final. caps stay. period.
No one is saying that. And Grubby’s argument on increasing the cap in his new video attacks your flawed logic.
Warcraft is a micro heavy game, that makes small control groups and individual input the optimal strategy. All player who wish to improve in the game will have to learn how to micro properly, no one will go far “F2 A-Moving”.
This is indeed derived from the design philosophy of the game, but isn’t in anyway a major mechanic. If is literally a training well bolted in so new players are forced to experiment with micro. The developers feared people wouldn’t micro, but everything is so well done that you naturally converge to it.
You literally can’t watch a player doing this lol. Watch Grubby’s new video, he talks about this.
No proper match of this game has 2 armies A-Moving without additional micro, and if you are moving your whole army without the attack action you have to pay attention to it. Besides, this is a pathetic scenario, either both players can select all units pr they can’t.
Lmao, it is impossible to do this with unit pathing, turn rate, attack animation and even body size on ground units. Furthermore, moving all units at once causes clumping, it is probable that you will get more AoE damage in that way.
Indeed you are correct.
There is a cap now.
So we don’t have to do anything… so the cap stays in the game.
Noone notices anything and you can get your beer.
Just today I was talking to a friend who played the game with me when we were younger and he brought up that he hated it. So did my brother when I asked him directly about the cap.
A change to the game that makes new players happy and has no effect on high level play is a no brainer.
But where did they even come up to have an issue with it.
I can remember but one moment I struggle with in the Campaigns, that is in the Where Wyverns Dare mission, where I need to drop off my army carried by 4 zeppelins into the Alliance base, and it is dizzying to control-group it all properly and time it well with the zeppelin unload.
Look, it is also a matter of flavour for me indeed, so I am totally biased. I simply think that it fits the game very well, and making it a 16-cap or something would suit me more.
If they uncap it completely, that is fine with me… I would simply decide for it to stay if I had the choice.
We all played the campaign and 1v1 for fun. Much probably the type of player who makes the bulk of the player base. It was always a eye turning moment because we wanted to micro in battle, out play each other in the action, not to be bothered when moving around to find each other.
If I though that this change messed up with the most competitive aspect of the game I would be against it, as I am with pathinder and many other details of the game. But it isn’t affecting it, as Grubby stated, then why the hell shouldn’t we catter to the newcomers? If they stick the game grows, if if they don’t we could even revert it for all I care. But I can’t lool at a net positive and not take it.
![:smirk:](https://dou48tnq0ocoa.cloudfront.net/en/warcraft3/images/emoji/twitter/smirk.png?v=6" ":smirk:")