Duh, because their eco is vastly superior to the other races and Zerg units these days are cost efficient enough that Zerg doesn’t need the giant eco advantage.
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He i have an unorthodox idea about Protoss, what if we move the ability to chronoboost into templar archive requirement ?
Or we put mules as an ability you should unlock after a research on the armory ?
Sounds like some serious ideas or just a whine “let’s nerf to death the races i don’t play” ?
You just proved WireBender’s point here, idiot.
Increasing the Queen’s supply from 2 to 3 means 33% fewer Queens if and only if the player is only matching supply, which they won’t be. In the early game, Zerg players are going to make however many Queens they want or need for their playstyle to work regardless of the supply cost.
The supply increase only limits the number of other units Zerg makes when it nears the supply cap. It is insignificant (just 100 more minerals for an extra Overlord per 8 Queens) until that point.
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Calm down, nerdicus, and put the katana away. I know you have an axe to grind with the Big-Bad-Batz, but you must understand that when you post 500 calculations a day one of them is bound to be wrong every now and then. WireBender stated I had a high rate of failure at basic math. Finding one instance disproves his theory but you are far too eager to finally have caught me for once and overplayed your hand. Learn from the BBB and you will find infinite wisdom. Kneel and I will grant you the key to my power - the power you are clearly oh so jealous of.
I have no interest in becoming an unethical liar, so I will pass on that.
Again, every time you’ve claimed this, I’ve asked you to list an example and EVERY time you’ve failed. Will this occasion be any different? No it will not. The only question here is if you will even bother to back up your claim with examples (my money is on “nope!”). When you call me a liar repeatedly, but every time are unable to prove it, at a certain point you need to realize you are the one who is the liar, sweetie.
RabidDrone:
“So what if Im wrong? Its only once.”
Alo RabidDrone:
“LOL, CAUGHT YOU! YOU THINK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SERRAL AND OTHER PROS ISNT AS BIG AS BETWEEN PRO AND AMATEUR?! FOOL! ALL POINTS INVALIDATED!”
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that’s why protoss is ahead on workers until around 45 workers right?
you change this and suddenly protoss is even further ahead for even longer.
except when a battle cruiser + hellion opening hits and now zerg either has less queens to defend the bc or less lings to defend the hellions, in a matchup that is actually pretty balanced.
[quote=“WireBender-1359, post:121, topic:3976”]
Duh, because their eco is vastly superior to the other races and Zerg units these days are cost efficient enough that Zerg doesn’t need the giant eco advantage.
[/quote]This. They need an eco nerf and a production nerf and the two go hand in hand w/zerg. In previous expansions zerg could still get a better economy if they survived (though many more early/mid game risks) but their units were not cost efficient. Now, their units are incredibly cost efficient. Ravager, infestor, viper, hydralisk and lurker with their fantastic upgrades. It used to be that the zerg would have to rely on remaxing faster than the opponent to win due to their eco advantage+ inefficient units. Now zerg has even more of an eco advantage in LOTV but wildly more efficient units. They odn’t need to remax to kill you, but should you beat them bad in a battle they still retain that FAST remax ability to make it even less likely they’ll be beaten. All of these design flaws just compound on one another.
[quote=“Cauthon-11697, post:115, topic:3976”]
larvae impacts our eco. warp gate does not.
[/quote]Zerg eco is intertwined with production due to larva. Increase larva production and both eco and production increase. Vice versa if you decrease it. I’m arguing it should be timegated so zerg doesn’t explode so fast in production AND eco.
Last thing- For those arguing that protoss is ahead in probes until about 45 or something, that’s such a disingenuous argument. If it’s true at all it’s only true for a very short timespan as zerg soars past that mark to max drones much faster than either race and that’s a serious problem given how powerful their units are now. Furthermore the argument completely ignores how quickly they can produce army units compared to the other races. This is why zerg MURDERS protoss in early game if they can get a nydus worm in. Tons of lings or roaches + queens with like, a handful of gateway units at best. Why is that? Because protoss is timegated and zerg is not.
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A blind man can see that zerg has the highest production rate out of all the races. Zerg beats protoss in both the early game and late game, as Atlas stated, because of how good their units are and their production. Despite all of that, I don’t think they should have timegated production. Zerg swarms, it’s what they do. If a nerf is to be applied it should be to zerg structures. Not their hatcheries, no, but every other structure except hatchery and spawning pool. Zerg tech switch is incredibly insane. I don’t think you should be able to make both mutas and corruptors out of the same structure, they are incredibly different. Much like how hydra den and lurker den got seperated. If zerg commits to a structure there should be a risk associated with that. To many times have zerg players easily scouted the enemy structures and easily changed their unit composition to counter the enemy. In example, a protoss starts robo, zerg scouts it after already having a roach warren and a hydra den in production, but are still able to drop a spire. I believe the cost of lair, hive, hydra den, spire, every zerg structure except spawning pool and hatchery should be increased significantly. This will reduced their ability to tech switch without little to no risk.
We could also give zerg 300 supply limit, while nerfing the strength of units. To give it more of swarm feel. This will give protoss a greater chance of survival during the early game, while still making zerg strong in the late.
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Sure, but only if chronoboost is reverted back to its original state.
Taco, very interesting idea. What about how efficient zerg units are now? Zerg can just get severely ahead w/pool and roach warren. How will your change fix it?
Well zerglings and roaches can only do so much. A ravager den should be implemented. Like baneling nest and lurker den.
In conclusion I think the units should maintain their current strength. Just make it harder to get those units.
Give every zerg unit its own tech structure and make that structure have a reasonable cost.
I agree with TacoTuesday. Zerg units have multiple uses outside of their main uses. A simple delay in army unit production by increasing tech structure cost and giving every zerg unit its own tech structure actually sounds balanced. I mean when it comes down to, protoss units can at most counter 1 other unit, I.E, immortal > roach, but zerg units can counter at most 2. I.E, Hydra > immortal, phoenix. Rarely would a protoss make immortals outside of a 2base all in or to counter roaches.
Yes but why is Zerg allowed to build Spores without the need of Evo Chamber like the other 2 races??? There is 0 reason to be like that.
I think the time gating idea only delays the problem and doesn’t solve it. If you look at lategame Zerg against other races there’s always a huge gap in the minerals at the end in the Zerg favour, it almost doesn’t depend on who wins (of course the gap is larger if Zerg wins typically). You can not beat Zerg economically. I know its an exaggeration but this kind of thing also happened in the dark swarmhost era. Where you had a Zerg sitting in middle of the map with vipers and swarmhost and no buildings left besides a couple of spore crawlers after the entire map has been mined with a poor protoss having all the bases but still having to draw because he can’t kill the army. Today its not that severe but there’s clearly something broken if every lategame ZvX ends with such a huge gap in mineral/gas banks. Either the Zerg economy is broken or the units Zerg uses are too efficient. Something needs Blizzard’s attention badly.
Terran doesn’t require an ebay for detection either.
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