You dont need to make hatch, you already have one. Only thing you NEED is pool. Which has no prior requirements.
Theres big difference in making stuff one after the other and having freedom to do whatever.
Again, the only time you’d be doing that is if you are braindead. 12 pool is the fastest pool in the game and you make a pool, 3 drones, overlord, then a queen and 6 lings. To make a queen before anything else, you’d be banking 600 minerals while you sat on 1 base. Your theory isn’t representative of anything except a figment of your imagination.
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You dont need to, but you can. I build my second CC before orbital to prevent proxy or 12 pool from canceling it. Do you see me mention second CC in stuff I need for my orbital? No.
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You can also send your first 12 drones to long distance mine, but what does that prove? Absolutely nothing. If you want to compare build orders, you need to compare something like standard zerg vs standard terran because that is representative of 99% of build orders. That would be a conversation about how the game works.
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When I compare standart terran investment of 50/50 for scouting once to Zerg investment of 75/75 for complete map vision until Phoenix/Viking is out, then 100 for each scout, you cry “You cant do it like that! As Terran, you should scan!” Pick one. Realism or options.
There is nothing even remotely standard about a comparison between a zerg that goes queen before overlord. You are talking about a scenario that would never occur, ever, in a pro game.
That overlord is not needed for your queen. It can be built paralel with anything else you build, like spawning pool.
Mining from your main base is not needed, either. Zergs can long-distance mine with their first 12 workers!
You can. It has no influence on you only needing pool for queen.
Standard play defines what is “needed”. You’d have to have a definition for “need” that doesn’t actually mean “need” at all in order for your statements to make sense. “Zerg doesn’t NEED an overlord before a queen”. Lmao you use words in contradiction to their definitions. Zerg absolutely does need an overlord before a queen.
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Visual representation for those not understanding.
Build time of depo: *
Build time of Barracks: +
Build time of OC: -
***+++++++±-----
Now, for Zerg:
Build time of Ovi: .
Build time of Pool: +
Build time of Queen: -
Build time of Hatch: *
…
___+++++±–
__******
See the difference? You can build all you need at once with one, not so with other.
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“Let’s make my example more complicated to prove that I wasn’t over-simplifying the situation in the first place.”
Genius! You came to the same conclusion as I did as you tried to argue in favor of your original conclusion. Wow. BIG BRAIN TIME.
And Terran takes a gas and makes 17 SCVs before building their orbital, on top of the actual requirments of a depot and a barracks.
Your point?
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For those opposed to this idea of timegating zerg, explain to me why warpgate research is necessary any longer. Warp conduit makes it an 11 sec warpin which is almost half the time it’d take for the unit to just come out of the gateway, not to mention that it’s totally vulnerable to attack.
Blizz specifically limited the production of protoss but didn’t understand that the 12 worker start reduced the limitation of zerg from when they had a six worker start. Now it takes a long research time for protoss to produce what zerg can produce much earlier and with no timegate.
You can say it’s because races are different. I’d argue after warp conduit, it’s actually zerg that needs to be timegated and not protoss. If it were the other way around, and protoss had no timegate, I could just as easily make that argument that races are different…
Especially when of all the races, zerg needs to actually be timegated. The explosion in zerg production is just too much, and there’s nothing they need to wait on to do it. Queens and drones. Drones and hatches. That’s it. Combine that with the very strong queen defense, allowing them to actually explode in production with little risk, and you can see why zerg is in the OP state it’s in. You see in games players need to kill a bunch of workers just to be even with zerg. That’s a problem.
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larvae impacts our eco. warp gate does not.
can you show me a single game, where the zerg loses the 3rd against a toss and yolos across the map and wins? im really interested in seeing that.
Well, both increase unit production. I dont see where you think difference is, but theres not rly one.
He means Zerg needs to choose between building drones and building army granted this is part of the difficulty of playing Zerg. However what makes this comparison unfair is that larvae works for every Zerg unit including drones, while Warp-gate only works for gateway units. Imagine Protoss could warp-in probes, sheesh, i’d rather not.
one is purely military and the other affects the economy of the race in question? if we can gate inject behind lair, can we lock chronoboost behind Twilight Council and Orbital behind Factory?
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so why is in your planned nerf, zerg the only race to have their eco nerfed? lock Orbital behind Factory and Chrono behind Council.