The zerg can achieve an army which exceeds the 200 supply cap… And you’re worried about just one zerg unit?
Really??
Now you mentioned it…
Drones are pretty OP if you ask me!
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Pro games have nothing to do with you so I don’t see the point of the comparison.
This is just straight trolling. Corrupters are great units. And are precursor to broodlord. The counter to trolling is not more trolling.
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LOL Spaz claims he’s never insulting… he’s ALWAYS being a passive aggressive kind of insulting. LMAO He says I’m biased. LOL Holy crap. I’m biased because I correctly point out that EVERY BlizzCon for the last four years has been dominated by Zerg? That’s bias?
Dude is literally screaming “Fake News” and thinks it’s a valid response to criticism.
LOL They have nothing to do with you, either, spaz. They have more to do with me, because I am a spectator. It’s obvious that
PS - We both know that you didn’t show a pro-match that backs up your BS, because there aren’t as many as you like to think…
I’ve found one where Serral lost one game to Gumiho from IEM 2019.
But I also found this one from GSL Super Tournament 2019 between Gumiho and Dark, where Dark wins vs mass BC, because BCs are too expensive.
Here’s what I have found…
The counter to Vikings (and it’s a HARD counter) is Fungal Growth and Parasitic Bomb. Then they become a total nonissue. That’s what Serral failed to do during his fight with Gumiho, but Serral went on to win 2-1 over Gumiho. Gumiho didn’t even make it to the playoffs.
But these matches are taken from old patches, with instantaneous BC teleports and still with anti-air infested marines. Ball’s in your court, kid. Can you find actual matches that prove that Terran or Protoss dominate Zerg in the late game? Here’s your chance. Show me all the matches that Zerg loses to Terran or Protoss*.
(*Since some people apparently don’t understand that the context of this thread and thus the challenge is in the LATE GAME with LATE GAME AIR ARMIES, I’m making this explicit here. This challenge to show matches that LATE GAME Zerg loses to LATE GAME AIR Terran or LATE GAME AIR Protoss, not just ANY match where Serral loses to early game proxies and rushes or mid game timing attacks. It also doesn’t apply to late game BIO play. It’s sad that I have to spell this out…)
I’ve watched a LOT of stalemates over forests of spore crawlers… that Zerg ultimately wins.
Sure, they can do this, but I’ve not seen this be a major factor in a pro-match, and that’s where my concern is as a spectator.
Buffs aren’t the answer, and I’m not opposed to giving a 3 supply Corruptor a buff in HP to make the ones that survive a YC volley tankier. Rolling back the Corruptor buffs is a better solution, though.
Unless someone is winning high level games using mass Corruptors multiple times, then that’s the time devs start looking for solutions.
They are. Every late game Zerg army includes a large contingent of Corruptors, and it’s always a huge group of them which, pound for pound obliterate Protoss Air, and it’s not even vaguely close. And Corruptors have high efficiency against Terran air, because they are so fast. To win against mass Corruptor, Terran’s spell casting has to be absolutely on point, but there’s a few caveats.
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At 100S, there’s still 20 or more Supply available for Vipers, Infestors, etc.
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The Viper’s Parasitic Bomb COMPLETELY shuts down Vikings, causing 120 damage and the Viking only has 135 HP. Not only are a couple PB’s enough to drive the Vikings away, they are now dead weight unless they are repaired.
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The Infestor’s Neural Parasite completely counters Battlecruisers. The chances of all 12 BCs getting their YC’s off against a competent Zerg with Neural Parasite is very low. The BCs are lucky to Tactical Jump away.
The thing most people are ignoring is how fragile the Vikings are compared to the Corruptors and how weak the anti-air weapons of BCs are.
Vikings are an okay counter to Corruptors, except Vikings only have 135 HP vs the Corruptor’s 200 HP. Yes, they do extra damage to Corruptors, but Corruptors are quickly replaced, and Vikings are not. Not to mention that the surviving Corruptors are healing back up to full health, but the surviving Vikings must be flown back to be repaired, or SCVs have to be brought up to repair.
I’ll argue that one Parasitic Bomb and a couple Neural Parasites are all that it takes to completely swing a Viking + BC v Corruptor fight in favor of the Zerg. One PB is enough to force the Terran to spread his Vikings. Meanwhile, they are NOT focus firing and they are still taking damage.
BC damage against Corruptors is a joke, outside of YC, and the BCs are usually forced into a situation where they have to target Infestors over Corruptors to defend against NP. Sure, in a straight up fight, Vikings + BC will do okay against 52S of Corruptors… but that’s still 100S vs 52S… They should be able to do okay against HALF as much supply, shouldn’t they?
That HALF as much Supply is going toe to toe against 100 Supply AT ALL and it’s arguable how well they do AT ALL is a joke.
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Serral vs INvoVation 1-3
Solar vs Zest 1-3
Soo vs Zest 0-2
Stats vs Rogue 3-1
a few
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You’re ALMOST there… almost.
Now, which of those were lost in the late game? The CONTEXT of this thread is in Corruptor based armies in the late game against AIR TOSS and AIR TERRAN. I’ll wait for you to process that it’s not just games that were lost in the early and mid game… or to BIO play or Chargelots and Archons… Nice try, though…
2 supply seems right for the corrupter. The issue seems to be the combined strength of parasitic bomb + yoinks + neural + corrupter. Also worth talking about the impact of mobile, space efficient anti air defense in spores which we didn’t have in broodwar.
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dominated by zerg?
2019 - yes.
2018 - 3 out of 8 are zerg. serral won a close 4-2 finals - thats domination?
2017 - 3 out of 8 are zerg. soo barely won against gumiho, got basicly a freewin against special. rogue barely won against ty. zvz finals will always have a zerg winner - thats domination?
2016 - 2 out of 8 are zerg. dark got freewins against foreigner like neeb and elazer. he LOST in finals against byun (3rax reaper ole) - thats zerg domination?
the only viable quote is, that zerg dominated 2019. but the past few years, it was far from a domination.
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I agree that the Infestors and Vipers need to be looked at, because it’s ridiculous that a 24S Infestor can turn into 168 Supply Gap for 22 seconds. And the yoink ability of Vipers is just insult to injury for costless harassment…
However, I disagree that Corruptors are fine at 2S each. 100S of BC+Vikings can do okay vs 26 Corruptors… but 26 Corruptors is ONLY 52S. That’s HALF the supply of Corruptors going toe to toe with end game Terran, and that’s before we sprinkle in Tier II Infestors and Vipers. That’s busted.
Also, it means that Zerg doesn’t have to make any hard Supply based decisions. They can maintain a potent mid to late game air dominance army and choose to go Brood Lord or Roach/Ravager vs ground, or Infestor/Viper vs air, or a mix.
Meanwhile, both Terran and Protoss are forced to budget their Supply economy, and have to choose how they want to lose (usually).
just as a note, because you’re not biased.
Z late game ~70-90 workers.
T late game ~40 workers because Mule.
But you have considered, because you have no bias, when you talk about NP and Sup and remax.
Just as you remember, because you have no bias as an observer, the T has range advantage in ata/ atg/ gtg/ gta when you talk about viper.
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Notice that this Zergboi hasn’t answered the question I asked him. It was a direct question. He either is INCAPABLE of understanding what is being asked or he simply lacked the integrity to answer what is being asked.
I’ll ask AGAIN… which of the matches you cited were AIR v AIR end game matches? And how many of them were lost in the early to mid game, spud?
Soo vs speCial
was one that went into the late game with Air vs Air.
If I remember Special is the only Air havy playing as T
The others go battle mech.
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well i think we could change the corruptors by
Nerf: cost 1 additional supply
Buff: +50 hp & +5 dmg vs massiv
this would allow them to be much more effectiv vs Carriers/bc’s while being in lower numbers (yamato takes out 1 corruptor normal [240] here not anymore because 250 hp) and overall weaker against other AtA
in additon Corruptors themself would get more resiliant against AOE
i would call that a fair change
any other opinions?
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1 Supply nerf does not warrant +50 maxhp and a few damage vs massive bonus for a unit that is incapable of killing units below. That is not a fair change.
Since you increase the supply by 50%, You also increase HP by 50%. Normally an increase in base damage should be included as well as mineral and gas cost by same percentage to compensate their lower numbers. But Hp is enough. Thus: 3 supply with 300 Hp Corruptors. Anything less than 100 is crippling.
or
Revert the buffs. No more changes.
Disagree with the analysis. Corruptors still have 2 base Armor. Exactly what ground unit are they threatened by that’s not going to be eaten up by Brood Lords or ground units?
Let’s name ALL the non-Zerg ground units that shoot up…
Protoss
Stalkers
Sentries
High Templar
Archons
Terran
Marines
Ghosts
Cyclones
Thors
Which of these are you suggesting are a serious threat to mass Corruptors and Brood Lords (or any other Zerg Ground Army)?
(Caveat: if your opponent is going strong ground army, you wouldn’t go strong Corruptor. You’d get enough Corruptors in the air to keep your opponent from even trying to tech switch… but, unlike Zerg, Terran and Protoss have to commit to ground or air in the midgame.)
Serral’s play has nothing to do with balance. It’s too bad you don’t understand how the game works.