WOL 4v4 was better than LOTV 4v4

If they’re so common, why was the most recent one replied to from 2021?

WoL and HotS ladder were both dead when they were removed. You would wait minutes at a time for one game, often one very lopsided game before going back into queue. I would know, I tried playing WoL and HotS ladder multiple times.

And you won’t be missed at all.

Eh, I’m on and off. I moved country recently so I’m working remotely and have little to do currently other than play games and talk to people.

I’m sure there were a few people who left with you, but it really wasn’t that many who were still playing WoL and HotS ladder.

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So you need about 175 energy per Raven. The Zerg player’s Brood Lords or Infested Terran can just kill the Auto-Turrets before they deal any significant damage, and Infestors can still Fungal or even NP the Ravens before they get close.

It’s the opposite. WOL’s 6 range, 125 energy seeker missiles were too big of a risk to reliably fire off against a competent player. Using Seeker Missiles with WOL Ravens was practically suicidal.

The HOTS Seeker Missiles were much safer to fire due to their range, and you could shoot twice as many of them due to their lower energy cost. If you really needed a Seeker Missile to go off (instead of whiffing), you sometimes had the option of getting closer or focusing down the target (with Tanks, Thors, Vikings, etc) so that the missile would travel to the target’s last location.

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You also could target your own unit with seeker missile and fly them into your opponent, which was a neat trick.

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LOL, not in Hots you couldn’t, only in WOL could you seeker your own unit and move it into the opponents units.

You just proved that you actually don’t know anything about sc2 and you never actually played WOL or HOTS, I bet you started playing sc2 in the last few years which would explain why you are here and don’t really know anything about sc2 and why you are defending the trash expansion that is LOTV.

You have have no idea what you are talking about or you are trolling. The HOTS Raven seeker was a huge nerf because past bronze league people just pulled the targeted units back and your Raven energy was lost because the seeker didn’t fire, unlike instant cast storm and fungal.

I know for a fact that you never played Wings of Liberty and don’t even try to pretend that you did. lol

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Ironically, you just showed that you’ve either never played HOTS, or you are just lying about it. Both the HOTS Seeker Missiles and the deprecated LOTV Seeker Missiles can target player, ally, or enemy units. Targeting your own unit and leading it into the enemy was definitely a valid option.

As opposed to never getting close enough to launch a Seeker Missile, rarely having the energy for one, or losing the Raven in a suicide run?

The WOL version of Seeker Missiles was practically useless. That is why Seeker Missiles were reworked in HOTS.

Seeker Missiles and PDD were outright removed in LOTV for an entirely different reason…Both spells could stack without penalty, which encouraged massing Ravens to abuse them. Mass caster play (particularly casters that can stack spells on top of each-other to deal with larger/stronger armies) tends to get very toxic, so the game is better without it. That is also why Storms and Fungal do not stack, but since Seeker Missiles dealt instant damage, there wasn’t a good way to remove that problem without completely reworking how it does damage.

If you were using Tanks, Vikings, or (against air) Thors; that usually meant that the Terran army could dish out damage without retaliation. The enemy would take damage attempting to get close, and most of the enemy army wouldn’t get to retaliate if it turned around to escape the missiles.

Pulling back individual units could be countered by targeting a number of different units, which the 75 energy cost allowed.

I’ve been playing SC2 since it came out.


The WOL seeker missile was nerfed hard because David Kim said it was too strong. So they they put a caster delay on it and made the targeted unit bright red so the person could just pull their unit back and the seeker missile would just dud and fall to the ground. The HOTS seeker missile was a massive nerf to the WOL seeker missile and the HOTS seeker only worked in bronze silver league if you were lucky. I already know this fact and you can ask anyone. Ask Ketroc the streamer, he has been making mass raven and PF’s every game on stream since 2010-2011, he was very sad when the HOTS Raven nerf was released and it got worse from there. Now the Raven is useless and not any fun to play with at all anymore.

Of course you had fun. Wiping out everything with a simple button hold. What a nice balance it was in WOL, what a real RTS. Make one unit, spam turrets and missiles.

It’s good that 3 rax reapers were nerfed, 5 minerals interceptors, broodlord-infestors and all that unbalanced crap.

It’s good a real RTS actually forces you to make diverse armies.

Huh? I was random Masters 1 in WOL. All three races in WOL has good spell casters that are fun to play that could counter one another by them selves and came down to player skill and mistakes. Wings of Liberty was the best SC2 out of the 3 by far.

Trust me, I know more about this game and I have more experience playing it than you and I’m not biased. I am a realist, with no time for you and your friends world of make believe.

i wasn’t going to post but i had to respond to the last quote so i might as well post the rest of what i had already typed

This doesn’t make any sense?

If you have data for this I would love to see it, but {my understanding is that} the majority of hardcore SC2 players played on the live ranked ladder and not the previous game ladders; because that’s what pros play and the professionals are the most hardcore SC2 players so other people will emulate that naturally.

My only evidence of that, unfortunately, is very loose and weak - the number of online players, and that as compared to number of ladder games played - not changing dramatically in a patch, the drop-off and inclines tend to be linear and not cliffs.

That suggests that the player drop-off isn’t due to a collection saying that the game without X is a bust.

It’s because it’s old and lost all its luster of shininess, so people have gone to play other games they like or to experience things they enjoy.

But all of this doesn’t matter because the biggest most important thing to note is that to this day, the number of dedicated ladder players makes up less than one third of the game population. The overwhelming number of players play less than three ladder games a week despite being online and playing games, because most of them play arcade games. {This was true before the WoL/HotS ladders got removed, too. The backbone of RTS is the noncompetitive modes because dedicated players are actually a very small percentage of the game’s population.}

“Chess is 1500 years old” but also chess has a much more upheld legacy of, well, being that old; an ancient classic that’s also easy to play at first and conceptualize - it’s also turn based {so it’s much more accessible}, it’s not graphically dated (not that sc2 is), and there’s a significantly higher general turn-over for videogames just in general.

auto turret
cast range: 3
attack range: 5

cast range: 9
radius: 1.25


I also played this, and back then as Zerg; it was very funny every time terran built large numbers of ravens because PDD was useless, auto-turret’s clunky and can’t be spammed out, and while HSM was deadly fungal + ITs was really really easy.


edit: {added words} that are very important


I have no idea why do think that you have more experience in the game, as I have random M1 in 2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4 too.

And yes the raven was broken, mothership + vortex was broken and a lot of other stuff.

It’s no wonder that in 2017-2018 any plat 1vs1 LOTV player could easily become masters playing WOL, but it would never work other way around.

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What on earth are you talking about? I take you never played Wings of Liberty. PDD was useless??? what? Auto Turrets couldn’t be spammed out??? what? That is what they were best for, you could spam them out and block off areas and make auto turret fields walls that lasted 3-5 mins before you had to recast them.

cast range 3
attack range 6 (or 7 with upgrade).

Range 8, radius 2.

Yep, you could not realistically zone Infestors with Auto-Turrets:

  • Brood Lords still had the range to kill them, and their broodlings could prevent the Ravens from placing more.
  • Infested Terran could also kill them.
  • An Auto-Turret had about the DPS of an unstimmed Marine by the late-game, making it only a minor threat.

Ravens had to get within 6 range, with 125 energy, in order to cast Seeker Missiles; so Infestors could definitely stop them without worrying about Auto-Turrets or much of anything else from the Terran player.

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That depended on the opposing composition. PDD was not particularly useful against Brood Lords or Infested Terran. PDD affected Corruptors, but the Zerg player didn’t necessarily need Corruptors.

Ok, but that wouldn’t do much if anything to stop a Brood Lord + Infestor army from advancing, nor could it zone out Infestors in that composition as you tried to claim earlier.

You could protect Ravens from infestor’s by pulling back your Ravens behind a auto-turret field wall. I played like 30k games with Ravens, before the Raven nerf in HoTs.

I was talking about Raven vs. infestor, not any other unit. If you weren’t too far behind you could kill Broodlords with seekers, vikings, and yamato cannon or ghost snipe which also worked really good vs. infestor or EMP.

This discussion is supposed to be about 1v1, not monobattles.

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It is fascinating, how someone claims LOTV not to be a real RTS, while admitting that he was spamming 1 unit for 30k games in WOL and feeling bad, that he can’t do it anymore…


That’s not what I said, you liar. I played tank marine viking raven most games, every game was different. Why put words in my mouth? I said I played 30k games with Ravens on both sides when I was Zerg, Protoss and with Terran. I played random most games in WOL.

You were talking about spamming turrets with ravens limited range against infestors. You would not spam turrets, if you already have marines + tanks.

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I would not spam turrets if… what??? Are you feeling ok? What in the world are you talking about? I am not even going to further respond, apparently you never played Wings of Liberty and you are trolling.