Witness PPP doublethink in action

General Discussion
123

So wait you cry about tos? And than you cry about zerg being up.

You don’t care about tournaments. but fact that top 4 protoses are better than top 4 zerg means, zerg is up to you?

Ragnarok wasn’t ever that good, not better than parting or zest for sure. And there is not anymore enough competition. Do you think, that imbalance top 10, or 20 means really anything?

Also after tos buff, toses got higher ranking, but that doesn’t mean zerg is up, PvZ imrpoved a lot for 3 months, after last patch. Could be that. Because tos was sh it against z. But that just means tos is op, not that zerg would be up!

Some koreans also play broodwar nowadays, or don’t practice as hard, sicne there is not much to play for…

You said it yourself, aligulac winrates are distorted, even so they are in favor of zerg consistently long time since 2019 terran had only 4 period with above 50% win rates. Even noobs playing in these, it seems win rates are titled in favor of zerg!

Or don’t consider them.

Than you said tournaments don’t matter. I both agree disagree, you have to look who played in them and filter out players, which just went on losing streak. And players, which differs too much in skill. Yet you have very small game pool.

You have to look at the game and tournaments both…

So where is your proof zerg is up? Because it is not, it is better than it was in 2016… At least you had 3 rax reaper and banes and hydras didn’t got hp buff and hydras +25% speed and +2 range, than +1 only…

Not to mention that balance at the top, is literally irrelevant for 99.9% population.

Maybe +5 hp banes, is ok for top 3 korean terrans, which can snipe perfectly each bane… But imba for rest of 99.999% of population…

124

It tells a lot you must go back to 8 months+ to see someone losing series against a certain race.

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125

I never said I don’t care about tournaments. I said the winner of a tournament doesn’t determine balance.

This ranking is based on tournament results and shows Zergs in Korea are doing significantly worse this year except Rogue, pointing to signs of imbalance. soO, Dark, Solar etc are all doing much worse.

hahahahah, 1 player. Your argument for Zerg being OP is because the goat wins series. Imagine actually being this clueless.

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Can you name other player with similar record against a single race?, no need to be zvp, just any kind of matchup.

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Tell me the truth. Are you trolling or do you actually think this argument makes sense? I really hope you’re trolling because I can’t imagine anyone being this clueless.

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Nono buddy. You said:

Not that the winner of a tournament doesn’t determine balance…

But i agree tournaments aren’t absolute measure of balance, you need to filter statistics first and still you have small game pool, maybe couple tournaments together. But you would have to track as well how are players doing and when are their strongest periods etc.

You need to look together at the state of the game and tournaments, to make judgement about balance… Also helps if you play game on high level. I had no problems vs zerg in HOTS… And than in lotv after bane/ultra buff i started losing occasionally even to diamonds, if they survived until late game… Terran is better until masters 1 league than zerg, because terran is more intuitive, but if you master zerg. Than zerg is favored, it is not like good zerg will lose tons of drones to bcs, or hellion/banshee and all iny hellbat pushes…

You have so much map control and vision and mutas are OP on these large maps… U can send 24 banes suicide into pf and get huge lead, if not straight up wining game and each time terran moves out, there is a counter, forces him to go back, because there are 5-7 attack paths, in hots 3-5 mostly… Bases far from each other and you can’t even wall off third on many maps, which is total joke… Until ultra nerf and stim buff, it used to be 7 rax 1 fact 3 base all ins every game, woah terran is so much good spot! And if you don’t kill zerg until 10 minute, you autolose hahahahah, because raven nerf… Zerg will get 100 workers and you can’t even touch him… You don’t even need ultra, maxed army of ling/bane is unbeatable…

Also again top play is irrelevant for rest of 99.9% population.

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Can you answer my question first?

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Dark has been injured. SoO won TSL 5 and didnt even play for half the year because he went to the military.

Solar, Ragnarok, and Armani are simply worse players than the top Protoss. Armani has some potential and we saw him beat Zest pretty easily in the last GSL.

Impact joined the military and was under performing anyway.

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131

Classic is the only Protoss that could win a GSL. But he is in the military. Looks like it will be a full decade before Protoss claims a Title.

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omg you’re actually being serious. Insane

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Noob players are attracted to Protoss like flyes are attracted to poop
Not having Protoss winning Premier Tournament is simply logic …

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Even before soO left he wasn’t in the top 10. In the foreign scene Serral and Reynor were the only Zergs in the top 12 as well. On top of that Zergs in GM have plummeted and Zerg populations are the lowest they’ve ever been on ladder.

What a weird coincidence that Zergs are doing so bad after getting nerfed a million times! I’m sure you have stupid excuses for every one of these things tho.

135

That’s exactly what I meant about tournament win rates. Mouth breathers in sc2 literally think the race that wins a tournament is all that matters. Look at WhinyTOSS on this thread.

I look at overall performance in the pro scene and that’s based on how pro players have performed OVERALL in tournaments. Not the one person who wins a tournament.

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136

XD XD XD

Tournament is won by player of most skill. Balance does not effect it. Someone call the doctor and tell him these posters have symptom of… lack of brain activity.

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Tearan whiners, we all remember how hard you whined protoss into the ground after the GSL tournament.

Where it was 7 protoss and dark in the final 8. As the terrans whined in new oceans, i knew, protoss isn’t even going to win this anyway.

And, sadly, i was right. As zerg went on to beat all 7 protoss and take another tournament.

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The higher the skill, the more the game is affected by balance, of course the game is pretty polished and not every action in the game is affected by imbalances, but it is there and sometimes shows up, that’s why instead of looking at stats, is better looking at VODS, still, one race being underrepresented and another being overrepresented in premier wins for years is pretty fishy.

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139

Higher the skill more game is decided by skill. And the least by balance.

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Proof of it is simple. Bronze player have 10,000 players to match his skill. Serral have 0. So higher the skill least balance matter.

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141

:man_facepalming:t2: :man_facepalming:t2: :man_facepalming:t2:

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Serral is good, really good, but how do we know that his race does not matter?, how is he able to have insane streaks of zvp a matchup that stats shows that is Z favoured?, he can lose zvz series, he can lose zvt series, he ‘‘never’’ loses a zvp series. We see him and we don’t see amazing splits or insane multitasking, nothing flashy, even his style is boring, he even crashes banelings into tanks, which makes me wonder how we should translate skills into other players to see who is better player, is decided by results, is decided by micro, by macro?, by game sense and strategies?. For example, I think Reynor is better even if he has worse results.

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