Ironically, that’s probably true. Reduced APM requirements gives them more time to think before acting, which results in better actions. It’s the advantage bestowed upon protoss abusers via the absurdly low apm requirements of apetoss. When a 90 apm toss can take games off a 250 apm zerg/terran that’s literally 2.8x more time to think about each action before acting. The skill floor of protoss is quite literally at the bottom of the ocean – you could reach in, pull a fish out, let it flop around on the keyboard & it would get grandmaster as protoss.
People act like they can’t understand how that’s an advantage and you just know they play protoss (and only protoss) because only a protoss could possibly think apm is irrelevant because it’s the one race that apm truly isn’t relevant. The fact apm requirements aren’t relevant to protoss is exactly why protoss is advantaged. By denying it, they prove the point.
Bronze players have a 200ms reaction time & grandmasters have a 40ms. But if protoss is allowed to react 3x slower that’s the equivalent of a 120ms player getting into grandmaster. It’s literally a gold or silver skilled player in grandmaster. Then these clowns go " why can’t we beat serral zerg op!!! ". HAVE YOU TRIED CLICKING FASTER? THAT’S YOUR ENTIRE PROBLEM! THANKS FOR ATTENDING MY TED TALK.
The trick is to not read anything anyone writes on this website. People think I read their long posts explaining how apm metrics aren’t relevant cuz toss are actually super secretly skilled players in unquantifiable ways. Do the trolls think I tune in to flat earth conferences - no? Then why the heck would I be reading the posts here. Just reading them legit subtracts 30 iq. You can feel the brain cells die.
I mean APM metrics aren’t everything. The fact that not one single metric could point to them being equally difficult? That’s insane to me. Something should just as hard.
Agreed. APM on its own is one thing but being lower in epm, screen movements, spending quotient etc is insurmountable. The only way that happens is if you flat buff a race and everyone playing that race moves up a rung on the ladder.
Not only that, we have research papers from actual universities stating that APM is a reliable indicator of skill & that the difference in APM/SPM suggests toss is easier. Crazy enough, people still deny it.
This paper has explored the intersection of esports analytics and machine learning with a focus on Starcraft II, a cornerstone of competitive gaming. The statistical analyses, including ANOVA and pairwise T-tests, have provided pivotal insights into the importance of APM and SPM in differentiating player capabilities across races and ranks … The pairwise T-tests further elucidated the relationship between APM and a player’s rank, underscoring APM’s role as a reliable indicator of skill expression in SC2.
Based on these ANOVA tests, keeping the skill level consistent, we found that the
average APM and SPM significantly differed from each other when considering the
combinations of races from this IEM dataset. The ANOVA results are further reinforced by our insights from Figures 5 and 7, which showed Zerg having noticeably higher APM and SPM. Additionally, Figure 11 below shows the win rates based on match-ups at the professional level. Each race has a similar win rate when considering all match-up combinations, ranging from 53 to 56%. However, when considering the ANOVA tests of APM and SPM by race, this may suggest that Zerg players have to “work harder” than Protoss or Terran players
I think the differences between Terran and Zerg are fine. Based on what I’ve seen, terrans have a slight APM lead and zergs have an SPM lead. The issue is protoss: GM protoss have skill metrics comparable to masters-2 level zergs.
I already knew all this. I had this all figured out about 6 years ago. Everyone in the gaming industry had come to similar conclusions because games were designed to reduce APM/SPM requirements. League is the most notable one in the RTS genre. It is as a matter of fact the king of RTS and that’s because they realized mechanical requirements were the primary road-block for the casual gamer to get into the RTS genre. People STILL deny what is basically industry standards. It’s not me saying zerg/terran is harder, it’s literally everyone. It is just a fact of the industry that the mechanical skills are the primary skills of the base-building RTS genre. Everyone in Starcraft 2 is as blind as a cave bat. Reddit will hit you will -1600 karma if you point this out. The balance counsel obviously denies this because they buffing toss to beat serral when it’s obviously an issue with the mechanical skills of the protoss competitors. It’s mass formation psychosis. A large group of people believing totally insane things that have literally no basis in reality. They might as well believe in unicorns for pete’s sake.
Diamond terran simply leaves the game. Legit 1000 mmr difference. No point in playing it out, right? Right? Unless you are toss then gm zergs are free mmr lmao. The fact they even play it out is proof they know toss is op.
That’s ironic because Harstem recently said that proxy hatch is one of the worst builds against Protoss because they have 6+ responses and they all soft counter it. He stated that the reason it wins is that it’s so bad that people don’t get practice against it (I blame Bly’s lack of results). He equated that to mutalisks in TvZ after clem got STOMPED by it in two games during the World Team League. A certain keyboard was hammer fisted after the ordeal.
Eh, personally I’d play it out if only to see how much further I can go and how well I might do comparatively. Potentially look at the opponent’s play to pick up some tips from what they’re doing (even if it’s for my own offrace).
Obviously I’m almost certainly going to lose, but at least I could say I tried.
Big-H is right in that toss is very advantaged vs proxy hatch. Toss starting a 3 minute robo while defending proxy hatch would be like a zerg starting a 3 minute spire vs a proxy 4 gate. Protoss is so far ahead there it would be absurd if the shoe were on the other foot. Chronoboost is flipping insane. You go proxy hatch and you’ve cut your drone production from 3x → 1x. Meanwhile he has a second nexus, which outproduces 3 hatch. Just watch it happen in Dark vs Hero in the GSL. Inject can’t keep pace with chronoboost. So the equivalent scenario for zerg would be a zerg having 3x the worker production & mutalisks on the way at 3:00 vs a proxy 4 gate. Obviously zerg would win that easily. It is legitimately insane that people actually lose games vs proxy hatch.
Where Big-H is wrong is that there is no excuse for it. I run into proxy 4 gate maybe once in every thousand games. I still know like 15 ways to absolutely obliterate it. Hatch before overlord builds can simply kill a protoss by counter attacking with lings while building spines in the main, for example. You can attack the gateways from the back if you can see their configuration with an overlord, which is an even faster win, but this only works if the protoss doesn’t fully wall the pylon with the gates (it happens surprisingly often).
The reason why GM toss can’t defend proxy hatch is because about 1/3rd of them are Masters-2 players masquerading as Grandmasters. They literally cannot win a single game of starcraft at this level unless they can spam carriers or immortals and f2 amove and win. Remember, proxy hatch is, as a matter of fact, zerg’s highest win-rate build at the Grandmaster level. And it’s also a complete trash build that should never win a single game ever. But it’s zerg’s best build. That’s how FUBAR’d balance is.
Also the clem comparison is bad because he’s an apm spammer w/ near zero strategical ability. He just clicks faster than the other guy and that’s how he wins. So of course he will drop a game or two to an off meta build because those require him to actually think about what he’s doing and that severely interrupts his ability to spam apm. Again, he’s not an impressive player, and probably never will be.
The point that I am making is that there are ways to detect when protoss players lie. They say balance doesn’t favor them but then they will play out a diamond vs gm game but only when it’s zvp. They do that when a terran or zerg would just leave the game. There’s a measurable response bias that shows they know toss is OP and take advantage of it. The point that I am getting at is that it’s futile to lie about this issue. They are lying, we know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, and they still lie. It’s nauseating. Oh, and they play the victim like they didn’t know what they were doing, and that you’re somehow the bad guy for noticing what they were doing.
For example, I have multiple research papers from various universities and research institutes & people are still harassing me that apm doesn’t matter. They are attacking me, calling me names (“batz”) and saying all these terrible things about me. It’s like, give me a break, guys. It’s obvious these guys are cheaters who know exactly what they are doing and they’ve been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. There is no reason to throw such an extreme temper tantrum about something as stupid as APM unless you have a guilty conscience. They act like I ran over their dog with my truck for crying out loud and all I did was show protoss needs some nerfs. It’s not the end of the universe if protoss on the ladder go down -100 mmr. They react the way they do, gaslighting you, attacking you, because it’s a mental defense mechanism to the fact they know they are cheating.
Yes that’s exactly what I do. I hate playing against berry and practicex every flipping game. Leaving vs protoss is a strategic time optimization. First, it lowers your mmr so you can find matches faster which means less wasted time. Second, you don’t waste any time playing vs apetoss abusers. It’s a win win. I actually enjoy tvz and zvz so let’s just fast forward past the protoss so we can get to the good part.
You remind me of taylor swift. You know, the crazy cat lady types of people who are right about nothing and offended over everything.
This is such a good comparison because, in my estimation, there are only two possible explanations with abs’ obsession with “batz”:
He is batz and has a weird habit of trying to insert himself into every flipping conversation.
(S)he is batz’s ex girlfriend who is trying to stalk all his social media accounts. So comparing this clown to taylor swift is actually right on point. This clowns got psycho ex girlfriend stalker vibes.
Either way, IDGAF and I couldn’t care less that your BF dumped your sorry butt. I’d dump you too.
Balance counsel buffed toss when they were already favored. Not only were they favored, they were more favored than any race ever has been in the history of the game, setting win-rate records, and the balance counsel buffed them more. You could quite literally throw a dart at a wall in the dark and get a better result than the balance counsel.
The fact you think this take is biased is proof you have no clue what you are talking about. Also lol @ harstem pretending to be unbiased by calling out skytoss players while he ignores the issues with scaling/chronoboost. Wanna talk about bias? Let’s talk about harstem, shall we.
The issue w/ the balance counsel is they legit can’t read graphs. After demotion, zergs win-rate plummets after the 3 minute mark and people still have the gall to call you biased for noticing what the graph says. It’s unreal. Gaslighting can only work when the data is kinda inbetween. When something is as black and white as this you’d have to be a literal neanderthal to actually believe toss needs buffs.
Toss needs a solid -300 mmr adjustment in PvZ. That is just what the data says.
Dude. I recently cited 2 research papers, one from university of georgetown and the other the cognitive science institute, making similar points to me. This trolling is just bad. You think 6 authors with masters degrees are wrong because they said something similar to me? What planet are you living on dawg because it sure isn’t planet earth.
We can have a discussion about the data but only once you show you are willing to be even slightly realistic. Calling me biased for being able to read graphs only demonstrates you’re a waste of time to talk to. We can pull open GM win-rates for PvZ and see if the balance is good, and it’s not. People get demoted out of GM and are no longer counted in GM win-rate statistics. You account for demotion and zerg has a flat negative win-rate at every point in the game except the 3 minute mark where proxy hatch or 12 pool hits. The longer the game goes on, the more zerg’s win-rate goes down.
This one in particular https://i.imgur.com/hTSOcP8.png is flipping hilarious because anyone who knows how to read a chi squared chart would have their jaw hit the floor at how overpowered protoss is.
“You are bad at making models”
“You should be fired from your job as a computer scientist”
“You are biased”
What tf is this guy talking about, man? What planet is he one because on Earth we can read graphs and see protoss is overpowered and it’s literally that simple.
“HOW DO YOU KNOW PROTOSS IS OP!”
“Uh, I have eyes. I, uh, use those eyes to read these graphs.”
“YOU ARE BIASED!”
“Uh, you do realize the data agrees with me, right?”
By the way, don’t take my word for it. Pay a statistician $500 usd to crunch the numbers for you. You can hire them on upwork like I do: https://www.upwork.com/hire/statistics-analysts/
Don’t hire one unless they charge at least $50/hour and only if they have a PhD or a Masters. Give them enough $$ for 10 hours. That ought to do the trick. Just don’t be surprised when it says exactly what I’ve been saying. One glance at GM representation numbers and he’s gonna think you are wasting your money because the answer is obvious. But he will gladly take your money none the less, I am sure. It’s capitalism at work.
I gave you 9 analyses already but lets do another one just for fun, because analyzing data and talking smack is fun. So the expected value for Protoss in GM is 0.32 if you set aside race selection complications. Why? Protoss is 32% of masters league, and GM is selected from masters league. But, do we get 32% protoss? Nope, we get 39%. It’s even been as high as 50% in EU the past season, but lets do as it is right now.
We use this data and this calculator. Punch the data in like so & hit calculate:
https://i.imgur.com/viLokHC.png
600 grandmaster slots, 234 are protoss, expected proportion is 0.32. Cumulative probability (assuming no correlation between protoss and increased performance) is: P(X<234)=0.99982 aka 1 in 5556 odds that toss is balanced. Protoss is simply being selected for Grandmaster too frequently for Protoss itself to not be the cause.
There you have it. I just saved you $500. But again don’t take my word for it. If you are confident you are right, go get a statistician to prove it. After all, what do I know. I am just an internet rando on some forum talking some smack about a video game lmao.
You admitted that SLAMMER and bowlcut are your alt accounts correct ? You confirmed that yourself on several occasions during our conversations.
And SLAMMER is tehbatz - Thrasher called you tehbatz when you posted link to deleted video:
“Did Blizzard accidentally buff broodlords ?”
Thrasher replied with something like “Video with tehbatz commentary so my brain can follow”. I’ll try to find it if i can.
What is the purpose of showing us three games that were played very bad, in which winning was easy against such opponents and losing had a reason behind it?
I mean, I guess you spent a lot of time writing this post. Time that you could spend on learning SC2 basiscs. There are plenty of Youtube videos out there.
My question is: have you tried to learn something new before accusing something to be broken? Maybe the problem is in your preparation and game knowledge?
Personally, I’m have not played a game for weeks because I’m studying units, strategies, game mechanics, macro and micro dynamics, using the Unit Tester to understand each unit and each strategy I can humanly learn.
What process of learning are you following, besides playing matches? Do you review your replays accurately and understand which were your mistakes?
why can’t we beat serral zerg op!!! 
". HAVE YOU TRIED CLICKING FASTER? THAT’S YOUR ENTIRE PROBLEM! THANKS FOR ATTENDING MY TED TALK.
Jokes aside - you HAVE to play all games even if you don’t like specific MU.
