Switching to the reported hard race?!

General Discussion
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I didn’t think that. I didn’t want to think that. But, when a person starts talking like everyone else and looking like everyone else… well maybe it’s the covid of SC 2.

I’ve seen some real nutty things that extend beyond any builds or tournaments or w/e within this community. With what I’ve seen… anything is truly possible, no matter how far fetched it seems. No matter how much it defies any logic or sensibility.

I’ve typed in 2+2 and I told the calculator that I better get a 4, but I get a 1 billion every day. Not even remotely close to what it we all know it should be. I was serious about when I said I’ve been contemplating not talking to anyone. I’m considering not talking to anyone for maybe a few years and waiting for this covid or w/e to just shake itself out. See how it plays out and maybe reevaluate.

That’s where I’m at. It’s getting to be too crazy to not be insane for even talking to anyone. I used to think crazy people were people who couldn’t stop talking to their cat. Now… I think crazy people are those who talk to humans…

It’s a bad habit, at the least.

It weighs on you. When the people who should be most in your corner and have zero reason on earth to be against you become your loudest enemy… it’s just like man… it’s really indescribable. I’m not joking when I talk about brain damage. There’s really something going on, in general, and I feel really bad about it.

Truth is… there’s always someone “above you,” and… in this society… they’re trying to scam you and kill you, more or less. I feel like all people have to suffer the consequences of living in a truly twisted place. The good people, every day… The bad people… their time will probably come sooner than later, too.

Anyways, back to SC 2. I haven’t been playing much T vs P lately, but… it’s kinda becoming the only games I lose. I’m getting titled, because I remembered the importance of eng bay blocking Toss, but… I always end up sending my scv a second too late, because it slipped my mind. Aggravating.

I feel like I just have to not lose to lurkers vs Zerg. That unit is so crazy that I dunno… This game might shift from solving builds and coming up with cool stuff to simply glorifying whoever “solves the lurker.”

T vs T has continued to go well. But, a guy who I traded games with and first used hellbatz vs me totally styled on me today. I couldn’t believe it. I felt like I was playing vs a top 5 player. The guy had 4280 MMR or something and he was attacking me at every base, simultaneously. Warping in BCs, left and right. Medivac harassing relentlessly. Viking harassing. It’s just like wth… The most godly diamond player in the world is bradborz or w/e his name is (not to be remiss… he’s 4800 with Zerg).

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Do you mean Badborz? Because that’s a 4800 + MMR zerg on EU that could have been offracing a bit.

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Yeah, that’s the guy. I just edited my prior post, I believe before you posted, to say that. The guy completely ran circles around me. I came away thinking how on earth did I ever beat this guy before. He only had 205 APM, but he was attacking every base, same time. Non stop.

That guy should switch to Terran. He’s the best Terran I’ve played yet… I mean he clowned on me and he’s the guy who has me playing mech, to begin with. I couldn’t believe he had BCs with how the game opened (he went 1 base double medivac drop). I thought the game was scrappy and close. But apparently not close enough for him to not have bcs…

On that note, I’ve decided to try to play without making any BCs vs Zerg. I just don’t really see them having enough importance/value if you didn’t rush to them. It seems like it should just be the mech version of the ghost, otherwise, in that you use them to yamato broodlords and utlras or what not. I could be off base, though.

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Heh thats so sexist of you to say… So is it just ActiBlizz leadership and culture that generates sexism or it is how they are in gaming communities. Personally I am for the interesting content, there are a lot of streamer chicks out there who are getting the viewers … because of being chicks not because of the content itself, which is stupid as it has always helped the ladies get away with lesser skill. But… ZombieGrub is the nerd that is not there for her chick look (because she is not that kind), so I take her as a fellow player than the chick with the big :melon: 's to get viewers. Not many natural cis-females really play that consistently ladder on Master league at least.

Otherwise, for others why would someone watch a girl playing silver or plat? Oh that’s right because a girl, and the path to fame opens. That’s how it works IRL too… lately we went from women rights to women taking all the leadership and path opportunities all the time more than men’s

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I can’t speak for what she knows or doesn’t know, but I can assure you that her close friends are very aware that they’re pushing fraud in regards to Max. It’s truly a promotion of discrimination or bad ethics at best. It’s kinda like being a criminal/thief. Does the thief discriminate in regards to what he steals? It’s probably a simple risk/reward calculation going on.

So when these people promote theft, yet any discrimination against themselves is in the same category… they’re really as selfish and self-centered as anyone perpetuating anything against them… They don’t care about criminals or “theft,” as long as it’s not them on the receiving end.

That is the mentality that causes things like this to persist in the first place. Character can’t be that selective/selfish: Either you care about doing things the right way, across the board, or you’re no better than anyone else in that regard, thus you can’t ever really throw stones.

It’s hard to imagine many good people work for Blizzard in any capacity, in regards to SC 2. You got guys hosting the pylon show going around calling known map hackers their boys and being accused of trying to hide all evidence. It’s like… sounds pretty Blizzard to me. Sounds like you gotta be a scum bag to get a paycheck from this company. It’s clearly the SC 2 norm.

I don’t think you should be in a gang of scum bags yet talk about justice… or the faults of others.

As for zomebiegrub/streamers… I’m not trying to be sexist. I’ve always expressed my disdain for streamers, in general. It’s just the environment. You could go 50-0 versus a guy, and that guy could be begging you for help, right? But, if he’s a streamer… and you’re just a guy who doesn’t stream… then the perception is… that person is totally cooler and better than you, in all ways, and thus you’re supposed to care more about his opinion than vice versa.

That’s just not reality. That’s just not how things are supposed to be. I don’t care. I’m not supposed to care. Their opinion is no more meaningful than anyone else on the forum to me. The only thing that makes it more impactful is “their outreach.” Arbitrary position. Their opinion is probably even less valuable, given the likelihood of towing company lines and thus not even their own opinion, than anyone else on the forum.

Women face issues, obviously, yet… I’ve seen how they have no compunction with lying. No issue with crying wolf, cause everyone will rush to their defense… while it just serves to encourage more people to make up falsehoods, which eventually erodes at the ability to take women, in general, seriously… only making all problems worse.

Man or female, people have to hold themselves accountable for their actions and others. If you did something, man up or woman up… Period. Society runs on this premise of once we become popular, we can do w/e we want and pretend we’re perfect and everyone else is the opposite. The perk of becoming more well known. We’re not really mature enough, as a species, to seriously think any problems are going away anytime soon. Not in my life time…

SC 2. My first “crime report” with Terran. My Toss opponent was nearly 4.5k MMR and he had 92 APM. Listen… one has to be very studious to even figure out whether my opponent was AFK or not. His minerals went over 3.7k. 10 min game. Most probes he ever had at his third was 2… so not like he was making a ton.

He knew I had widow mines, yet he never once attempted to make an observer.

I know I’m not speedy gonzales in the other corner here, but I was at least “looking alive.” Like I at last spent my minerals, lol. I don’t want to APM bash. I do wish the actual best strategist had a chance at winning the RTS games without neeeding an APM that would inevitably result in carpal tunnel or was within most people’s ability to have.

All I’m saying is, I do have to admit… it has been a trend. My Toss opponents have had way less APM on avg. My prior Toss opponent had 105 APM. It’s clearly “a thing.”

h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19657733

That said… it shows in game… and there’s really no excuse to lose. Unless they do the void ray all-in…

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Widow mine drops are your friend against low APM protoss players. If you already have tech labs get drilling claws and a few medivacs.

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The thing is, I don’t get a starport until after 5 factories or so. At that point in the game, I’m just looking to win battles. Their economy is whatever it is.

I don’t even widow mine drop vs Zerg anymore, despite having a million mines and multiple starports. Honestly, I feel like… if you could have a successful widow mine drop, you could probably just as well walk mines into their mineral lines and have success too.

Instead of using a medivac to setup the harass, you’d just use your army to pull them out of position type of thing.

I’ve never been a real risk taker in regards to SC 2 harass. And, when you’re playing mech, there’s just no real multipurpose of a medivac. It increases the burden on you to do damage.

That said, I’ve said it before on here that doing a widow mine drop with drilling claws is risk free if you use 3 mines. Evenly spaced out widow mine drop, with drilling claws… there is no escape. There’s basically nothing you can do, as Toss, if you didn’t have foreknowledge of it coming. You lose your mineral line and it feels ridiculous.

I think I might be slightly improving my T vs P, simply with a realization of when to get widow mines, and the fact it seems kinda hard for Toss to attack into cyclones if you also have widow mines. Thus, you can not die and reach a critical mass of cyclones and then show them what’s up, aka, the loss screen.

Edit: My last game, I made a starport early cause I scouted DT tech (he ended up canceling, though). h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19658138

But you know me, give me an early starport, and… I have to make vikings and harass with them. They’re just so incredible at it vs Toss. It has to be the most underrated thing in the game.

I hope I did well, though. I used the raven for the anti armor thing and disabled an immortal. A real stomp, you know. The guy said “WP,” cause… he was a man of truth and honor. The guy who should be casting events and what not.

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I feel like I’ve made a massive opening mistake that, alone, has costed me 100s of MMR, that none pointed out. I set myself up for failure and everyone turned a blind eye, just to make Terran seem harder than w/e it is. Shame on you, Thrasher.

So, I had been going 14 supply, gas → rax. If doing an inbase rax, maybe that’s okay. But, I was mostly proxying, and clearly that has to be a mistake/bad. So, today, I started going 13 supply, rax → gas, and that seems infinitely better.

Atm, my losses appear to be against 4500-4600 players, so my MMR should be somewhere around there. In two days, I get to start playing ranked on my new account. So, we’ll officially see then.

I started beating proxy void ray builds, when making my rax at home. I started making a bunker and even a turret at the proxy. Overkill, it seems, but I had to ensure I got some more Ws on the board vs that.

My bad opening, as mentioned, hasn’t done me any favors vs Toss. And, to make matters worse, I was compounding the badness by making extra depots and what not before expanding. Just absolutely horrendous starts, shooting myself in the foot. By simply opening smarter/more optimally, that should definitely boost some MMR in itself.

T vs T: I feel like my last game was versus the most abusive build to date. The guy opened mass cyclones. I had previously lost a game due to trying to mass vikings vs a mass cyclone opening. So… I was like that was dumb, let’s not do that again…

But, this guy switched from mass cyclones into 3 starport BC, quickly. He pushed with some tanks and then warped in some BCs.

I’ve noticed that fast BC builds seem awful, but tank pushes with warping in BCs on the other guy’s anti air/army seems incredibly strong. Duly noted.

My last T vs Z game was vs a 4400 masters guy, and I feel like it was probably my most most solid opening/game yet. Seemed pretty clean, all around.

h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19667019

I feel like that’s a solid enough opening/strat for 5k, at the least. I’ve heard/seen that fast BC builds lose to roach floods. Well, this opening shuts down all-ins, while denying thirds, and then warps in a BC to their base, so… it seems to kinda be anti roach all-ins. The only real danger seems to be playing vs fast nydus all-in builds, so instead of making a raven, I think I need to be making a viking there to kill overlords that could give vision into my base.

All-in all, I don’t believe I’m too far off MMR wise from the Ruff’s of the world and the streamers who off race as Terran. Trajectory seems pretty decent. I don’t feel too stumped as is.

As I mentioned before, T vs Z feels incredibly similar to me to T vs P in BW, with how it plays out. It feels like T vs P in BW minus arbiters. The nydus serves as like the arbiter, though. So, it feels like playing against an incredibly nerfed Toss in BW and a buffed Terran, to boot.

Given that, I’m not sure why people aren’t massing mines when going mech. You needed mines infront of your tanks in BW to stop zealots. I see no reason for it to not be a 100% equivalent in the need to stop lings, banelings, etc. Seems to be a perfect match and necessity to me.

I will say, one interesting thing to me is the nydus aspect. In BW T vs Z, if someone mass dropped you or even if you knew they planned on it, you weren’t supposed to actually defend vs them.

You simply built an army that could win a base trade, and you tried to win that way: if you kept trying to go back to defend, they would keep getting ahead. It was a negative trade for you that would accumulate into them winning. If you just stayed in your base, they would take the map and win via eco.

But, with the nydus functioning as mass drops + the ability to instantly teleport back home, it adds a completely different complexion to that equation on whether to defend or attack. In my last encounter, I went back to clean it up and went on to win, but it made me think about this inherent dilemma.

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Guy who spent all of 2019 complaining about proxy reaper needs to be taught the difference between rax and gas first? I thought not knowing hellbats were mechs natural mineral dump was bad but this is next level, like your abcs even if you offrace.

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I’ve never studied the game at all, in regards to other races. Never noted builds/timings. Just living in my own little bubble. I had no idea about what you had to do to have enough gas for this or that. Unless you’re really trying to be a pro gamer, there’s just no real need to be a try hard, in that regard. Can be pretty ignorant and just focus on your own builds.

Btw, it hit me, not that I’ve had the chance to use it yet… but I’ve spoken about it in the past, years ago, in regards to the optimal way to play T vs P. It’s totally banshee, cyclone. I believe TY or Maru tried it vs Parting a while back. That is the style.

It’s how you win every game in P vs P, basically. Toss attacks you with a bunch of chump gateway units, trying to flex with some scrawny plebs, and you simply snipe their detection and they lose. It’s totally that simple. Toss is that exploitable/vulnerable.

I can’t believe I forgot how imbalanced banshees are. I know it’s an overused word and it seems ridiculous given how incredibly slow banshees are. I knew they weren’t speed demons, but I’ve been taken aback by just how slow they are. Jesus. Yes, I know they have a speed upgrade. Point remains.

Simply making banshees contains Toss, to begin with. It’s incredibly, incredibly annoying to play against banshees, because you can’t get away with 1 observer. You can try… and hope the guy just keeps trying to harass the base with the freaking observer, but even then… even if you guess right… you don’t have an obs on his side of the map. It feels awful.

Making more than 1 obs feels so bad, too. There is no win/win. Simply making banshees makes Toss suck even worse. There’s no real way around it. It’s abusive.

Needless to say, I’m looking forward to using this style. I truly believe this is the way to go. It’s a real no brainer to me, and it’s really embarrassing that I made this oversight. Banshees straight up clown on stalkers. And cyclones instantly kill observers, as does every other unit that shoots up. Simply using this style should make anyone high masters.

If I can’t get high masters with this style… I suck. Not much more to say than that. To add, banshees are also the optimal way to go, because dts are clearly the best way to approach vs Terran, so having quick access to a raven, if need be, is most desirable/necessary.

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since you were up until vrey recently not sharing replays of any kind atleast in this thread we can’t see waht you are up.
on the other if we suggested stuff you prolly dismised it anyway since it isn’t your way of playing, not to forgett that we are unworthy of talking to you anyway due to (insert some random reason here )

so yeah even if i could predict how you are doing things you prolly wouldn’t look into sugestions since me am not as smart am u

case and point?

i think you should get a depot at 19 or 20 ish supply so you can get faster into mineproduction and don’t necessary have to sacrifice the reapers in order to get mines

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Everything is going accordingly to how I want it. I always go reactor first, because that’s what I want to do. And then I get to 30/31 supply, and I choose to use a call down of supply. This is all by choice (no sacrifice going on for supply). I want to make a starport and an armory around this time, and making a supply depot would slow down what I immediately want. 1 mine goes to each third location.

I’ve been top 10 GM without copying a single build. I hadn’t even walled off a single game versus Zerg, on the low ground, at that point. Copying isn’t something I exactly look to do, and if one were honest/objective, it would be kinda obvious as to why, and the history is people end up copying me… For me to copy others would kinda be like Parting looking to copy my micro… It’s kind of the opposite of sensible.

Heck, even the Terran meta in BW… is how I played/my builds. If you were to look at my oldest games, basically, it would be impossible to tell that they weren’t played today, if just looking at my builds. That’s a complete anomaly/unicorn thing.

All that said, I obviously don’t know a lot about Terran, in SC 2, and how others perceive the game. At a bare minimum, I’m always very curious about how others think the game should be played and what they would do in any position. I’m a curious person. The more knowledge, the better, right?

So, speak about timing. For the first time, in all of SC 2, I encountered a build that I actually want to copy, from A to Z, basically. I liked everything about it, even if it seems kinda risky to play without a raven. It’s the first time I saw something and I was like… “this guy makes sense. There’s actually reasoning/logic behind what he’s doing.”

The replay of the build I liked: h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19668636 T vs T. I got owned.

Shout out to SkyT.

Btw, I literally just started playing Terran. I wasn’t being coy with how I was playing or w/e. I simply just started. Before recently, I wasn’t even playing as Terran. I feel like I showed replays from even the second day I played. I haven’t even unlocked the ability to play ranked yet on my new account.

Also, thanks for watching it. Appreciate it.

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Someone smells their own farts

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Nothing to smell, not enough bacteria. If stating facts makes you feel bad, good. Feel bad.

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okay i can see the benefit of calldown supply and the instant +8 supply for the cost of 50 energy but in the longrun you might opt for the mule instead at that point

calldown supply saves you 100 minerals + 25ish from the building scv not mining, while the mule over its course grants you access to 225 minerals so you are missing 100 minerals basicly at that point
add the ordinary scv mining at that time you get the 100 minerals in notime

also if you don’t sack the reaper you can on bigger maps look for ninja-expands easier in case the zerg was sneaking out another drone as he realized that you are ebayblocking and have the the rax landed

hm in theory i think you can delay the port in that scenario for a bit since the amory is granting the cloak , one banshee won’t stop a full fledged roach ravager attack, tbh i don’t know what that zerg was expecting to achive with that ravager poke, any unit basicly would have reflected that

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I’m mostly aware of the math in that instance. I believe it’s fairly apparent that you’d want the armory and starport ASAP. If you can get a widow mine to burrow at the third locations when the armory completes, it seems to be game over. Obviously, it’s also nice to kill their units without them being able to kill your mines, afterwards, too.

I rarely seem to lose to roach all-ins. Again, if I make the starport as soon as possible, my odds of not dying drastically increase. As noted, it’s not ideal to not have a tank, so you better at least have a banshee out asap. I’ll usually make a hellbat, and as the roaches eat mines and mess around with the hellbat, it seems to buy a few seconds.

Again, I’m not really trying to sacrifice the reapers. I am and I’m not kinda thing. I’m obviously using them to try to delay a third, but then I keep them around, knowing speed will finish, to see how many lings are being made and try to bait them into widow mines. I want to make sure my mines are positioned properly.

I haven’t had a Zerg sneak a base in on me yet. One tried to expand elsewhere, but I was aware of that. Given I have banshees and Zerg needs to take a third by “x” time or else they lose, you can always kill outlier bases easily enough. I also have a ton of widow mines. It’s not out of the realm of possibilities to use a mine to scout, either.

All that said, I really don’t want reapers taking up supply past the early game/defending an all-in. I know it’s just 2 supply, but you should probably suicide them via scouting the main or something.

I feel like once Zergs realize their third will be delayed to an obnoxious degree, they tend to go for some roach push, but if my timings are good, then that also doesn’t pan out… so from there, it’s kinda like lose/lose choice time.

Thanks for your opinions. We’ll see how things pan out, the higher up I go, and what adjustments need to be made. Maybe you’ll be proven right. As is, I’ve started playing 4700 and 4800s fairly regularly now. But, not many have been Zergs. I feel I’ve fared well, so far, vs 5k’ish players. Not too far off, already. I seriously would have beat the 4900 Zerg if I simply knew my hotkeys.

I’m still in the process of changing hotkeys. For instance, I lost a lot of games, actually, due to having T as my halt production key, and also having T as my make worker hotkey. So, you know, early game, you’re spamming a bit like a real geek… and next thing you know… your supply depot didn’t build or your rax didn’t complete and now your scv is 5 miles away.

I have make banshee as U. Made the alternative to C, but I’ve yet to remind myself to use that key, and somehow I lost a game, a couple games ago, cause I made a raven instead of a banshee. I’ve lost about as many games due to hotkey mishaps as I have to not knowing what to do.

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Playa is yet to learn the benefits of not fully saturating his gas once the factory starts. I guess we really need to go over the abcs

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Lol. I’m aware that people pull off scs at some point, as the norm. I’ve messed around with pulling workers off gas with Toss and what not, and I gotta tell you… I love me some gas. The more the better. I haven’t noticed any meaningful improvements (increase in minerals) between two probes and three, for the most part.

Like when I P vs Z, I don’t instantly put 3 probes on gas, but I also get my assimilator before my gateway. When you go gateway before gas and you try to only put a couple probes on gas, there’s no real gain. Not only do you not get anything faster, but then… you’re so low on gas, that you have to take your geysers at your natural way faster than you otherwise would… and that sets you back. There’s really no net gain. It’s actually a negative.

I do gas hungry builds, though. If you’re a pleb lord who loves massing basic pleb units, then… I haven’t gotten my PhD in plebatry. So you/they might be right, but only an admittance of plebness, if you ask me!

My last game was vs a 4600+ Toss player. I may have collected the W: h ttps://drop.sc/replay/19670288 He went with that proxy gateway build. One at home, one by my base. Excuse me, buddy.

Get this, he then tried to switch into 3 stargate phoenix. Umm… apparently he didn’t get the memo that cyclones don’t give an anything about anything bruh. No matter what is made, looks like christmas to the cyclone. Banshee, cyclone with some really atrocious macro. That’s what I was on.

I feel like anyone who makes a normal amount of observers is going to auto lose vs banshee builds. Yet, I added in a raven, so if I played against a mass obs guy… that’s probably not going to go well, either. You want to make an oracle vs mass cyclones? Lots of unsavory options.

Forgot another Toss crime to report. I’m not joking, I beat a Masters Toss player that had 50 APM. Most of his games are 50 APM. His high that I saw was 64 APM. It appears that he is going proxy 2 stargate void ray in every matchup basically. Wild.

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Want to take a guess on the first style I used against you?

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Don’t tell me I’m using the thrasher build. Also very odd/creepy that anyone would remember the first build they used against me. I approve, though.

Is Thrasher a man of strategic righteousness, or once was, who has now lost his way and Playa is trying to get him on the right path again? Come to the light, my son. Be born again. Let me pour water on your head. Get you in a dunk tank. We out here winning games, dunking kids in water, and saving SC 2 players’ souls. If that’s not a feel good story, you a robot.